Le 5 déc. 2006 à 08:27, Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis a écrit :
On Mon, 2006-12-04 at 15:07 +0900, Karl Dubost wrote:
Give the possibility that the "textarea" of a form to trigger an
editor, (A kind of setenv $EDITOR "editorname")(potentially wysiwyg).
and/or implement a real wysiwyg editor for forms in browsers (which
sounds a bit silly when you really think about it)
There will be less nightmare of hand code editing.
Nothing based on WYSIWIG principles will /ever/ produce good semantic
markup.
agreed.
Semantic markup is about what we think not what we see;
agreed.
and what we think is difficult to deduce unambiguously from what we
see.
agreed.
but there's a point that we might take into consideration: People.
People do not want spend time structuring information, only a
minority like me.
If the only way to edit structured document is hand coding then it
will fail. Always. Microformats/RDF have the same problem. It is too
complicated to hand edit. So let's look around us and identify when
people do structure editing:
- Spreadsheet software (structured tables)
- Templates in word processing tools
- addressbooks (form-oriented applications)
- DB applications with UI
- Weblogs (only title, content, and category)
They are all based on constraints given by an editing template. The
only way to do structure editing is to have a normalized templating
language, which can trigger specific UI for editing. People use this
because they can have an immediate benefit of their editing.
Also, the sheer variation of browsers and their configuration
ensures that
others will rarely see the same thing anyway.
Not a problem. I was answering to the message which was advocating
for hand coding. Hand coding addresses only a minority of Web
technologies users.
With that caveat, especially given the fact that most browsers compete
to make textarea as unusable as possible, allowing users to open an
external editor for text inputs and textarea is an extremely sane
idea.
It's suggested by UUAG:
http://www.w3.org/TR/UAAG10-TECHS/topics.html#form-control-orientation
Yep I think that would be a move forward. A real one.
It would likely to remind the time of OpenDoc/CyberDog on Mac OS 8
for example
Web Forms 2.0 tries to help by including a type attribute. This is
better than nothing, but it's not great for two reasons. First,
because
usually user-contributed content comes in the form of parts of
documents
(e.g. a string of HTML) not whole documents. Second, because text/html
is not nearly specific enough to cover even the different branches of
(X)HTML, let alone the microformats and so forth.
Challenges indeed.
CURRENT EXTERNAL EDITORS:
Thanks for all the references. Very helpful.
Apparently, you can open a textarea in OmniWeb with TextMate using the
"Edit in Textmate" Cocoa input manager:
[…]
Safari also uses Cocoa, so this will work there too; it may also
work in
Camino, though not as seamlessly:
Edit in textmate doesn't work in
- Camino
- Firefox
But it works perfectly in
- Safari.
--
Karl Dubost - http://www.w3.org/People/karl/
W3C Conformance Manager, QA Activity Lead
QA Weblog - http://www.w3.org/QA/
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