Gili wrote:
Err, sorry to interject but I also feel that we don't do enough large-scale development on Wicket. Eelco, I understand you have been using Wicket for your project but that is one person doing one project and over the past few months we've run into a lot of issues that make it clear that Wicket is not yet ready for use in production machines. There was and still is some pretty basic functionality missing from the framework and most recently performance has become a more noticable factor. I think that one cannot say that Wicket is ready for use in production machines until after a handful of companies with big websites use it.
no, no no. eelco IS talking about some fairly substantial projects... i got to meet a lot of these people and the presentation i gave at topicus was attended by about 20 people. a substantial portion of those people are either already working on wicket projects for corporate clients or will be working with wicket on their next corporate business / IT project. topicus has adopted wicket as a technology for serious use and their clients are large enterprises. what i was saying a moment ago should not be misconstrue! what i was tryint to get across is that wicket is going to need some features in 1.1 to scale all the way up to the top end of enterprise software (gargantuan sites with hundreds of thousands or millions of requests per day like amazon, yahoo, google, etc.). for these kind of sites, client side models and zero state will be an absolute requirement. and wicket does not yet support that. for "ordinary" enterprise use, i think eelco is right. we're already there with wicket 1.0.
i would like to hear more about your performance problems. in particular the image resource performance problems you noted a while ago has certainly been fixed via the new shared resources code (see hangman or images examples and read the javadocs). i'm not aware of anything serious in the way of performance issues in wicket. if you make good use of detachable models and use PageState records to tune your session's replication, you should be able to write a very substantial wicket application right now. to go to the next level (high volume enterprises like amazon.com), we will need some new features. but i really think you could make a decent size corporate site with wicket 1.0. it will take a little patience and a desire to learn some things for yourself right now (we're working hard on docs though...), but wicket is ready to go for serious use.
As Jon pointed out, that will likely be Wicket 1.1, not 1.0. Even when the latter goes final I don't think it'll have decent performance for use in corporate websites. Just my 2 cents.
there really are multiple classes of corporate web sites. for "normal" corporate use, i think wicket 1.0 is there already. for high volume (what i meant by "large" earlier) corporate use we need a few more features. but the architecture should not need to change dramatically. an update to wicket that supports high volume enterprise applicaitons should take a few months at most.
Gili
Eelco Hillenius wrote:
You're not? We do. Though the web application part is just a part of the whole, we're using Wicket for our 7 man year + project right now.
The fact that we don't have javascript support etc. build in yet, doesn't mean it is not useable. You can do Javascript, AJAX, whatever right now if you want to. It's just not yet totally integrated, which actually only means that you'll not be able to create high level reuseable components with JS/ AJAX/ etc.
I also think the clustering options are suited for production now. Might need a few tweaks here and there, but it's allready so much better than the Struts-like frameworks we're used to. And if you want to develop client-state pages, you can do that now (using bookmarkable pages). It's just that we're gonna make it even easier in 1.1.
Eelco
if it helps any, i believe this is not going to be any /long term/ trouble. right now, i would not base a million dollar large-scale web app on wicket...
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