On 9/2/05, Ate Douma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Jesse Sightler wrote:
> BTW, Rickard's remarks on "changing his license" has been proven to be a
> bunch of bunk. The version of his code included in JBoss is and always
> will be LGPL.
Is it? Could you then please point me to this evidence as I haven't seen it yet.
Ate
>
> On 9/2/05, *Ate Douma* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
> Well, I'm not a fan of licensing stuff either and INAL etc.
> But, I think it *is* of utmost importance, especially for framework
> projects like Wicket.
>
> I would advise all the team members to read and follow the recent
> (this week) discussion
> started on the ServerSide about this exact subject:
> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36156
>
> This thread is already massive and contains besides very interesting
> and valuable opinions
> also a lot of rubbish as usually.
> As I said, INAL, but the one thing that's very clear to me from that
> discussion is that
> choosing the appropriate license *and* complying to it is not to be
> taken lightly and can
> be tricky to say the least.
> Using LGPL licensed code especially is very dangerous in my book,
> because everyone seems
> to have a different interpretation of it.
> Maybe the LGPL is crystal clear in legal terms in the end, but as
> long as so many people
> disagree about what it really means, I don't trust it...
>
> Most notably in the discussion on the ServerSide is the unexpected
> trick Rickard Öberg is
> now playing on JBoss by declaring all his original work within the
> JBoss codebase (which is
> a massive amount) to be GPL from now on:
> http://www.theserverside.com/news/thread.tss?thread_id=36156#182919
>
> Checkout section 3) of the LGPL for a clarification.
> This might end up as being nonsense and of no consequence, and maybe
> not.
> I really don't know but I love to find out how this will work out.
>
> Anyways, for Wicket, I didn't know yet it already depends (and
> contains) LGPL code.
> Turns out the DatePicker embeds and uses the calendar _javascript_
> library from
> http://dynarch.com/mishoo/calendar.epl.
>
> First of all, as result of that, I think we need to distribute the
> LGPL license with the
> Wicket extension library as required by section 1) of the license.
> Not complying with that is a violation of the LGPL.
>
> Furthermore, (and this one is very important to me as Apache
> committer) this also means usage
> of the Wicket extensions is no longer possible for Apache projects
> as the ASF doesn't allow any
> LGPL binding. While this is a restriction only from the ASF itself
> and not purely based on
> the ASL 2.0 license of Wicket (it *is* allowed to bind to LGPL if
> you want), many companies
> won't allow using the Wicket extensions anymore because they don't
> trust LGPL either.
>
> I've worked myself on a commercial project which didn't allow any
> LGPL based or linked software
> because they didn't trust that license and couldn't be sure about
> the consequences.
> Reading the discussion on theServerSide again reinforced that I have
> to agree on that assessment.
>
> So, I think I need to make my position clear on this matter.
> Binding Wicket extensions to LGPL (as it already does) makes it
> useless to me and many others.
> And binding Wicket core to LGPL would make the whole framework
> useless to me and many others.
>
> I do think it is important to be very careful about all this. Some
> choices can end up to have
> irreversible consequences and in my view seriously endanger the
> acceptance of Wicket...
>
> Eelco Hillenius wrote:
> > Yeah, I don't know. I allways hated the licencing stuff. Wish there
> > were just two licences. However, we allready depend on some LGPL
> > licences and I have seen a lot of other Apache 2 style projects do
> > that too. I can't imagine this becomming an actual problem. But if
> > someone would be so kind to explain the details/ in-outs that
> would be
> > nice.
> >
> > It would really suck if when you choose for Apache 2, you
> couldn't use
> > LPGL at all, and if you choose LGPL, you couldn't use Apache 2 at
> all.
> > I'm pretty sure I speak for 95% percent of the programmers if I say
> > I'm really not that into the details; as a customer I want to know
> > whether I can ship it with commercial projects, and - maybe - whether
> > I can ajust the source and ship it.
> >
> >
> > Eelco
> >
> >
> > On 9/2/05, Igor Vaynberg < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> >
> >>If the license is such a big issue why not just keep this project
> as contrib
> >>instead of extension, that way the license doesn't really matter.
> >>-Igor
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>-----Original Message-----
> >>>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >>>[mailto: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On Behalf Of
> >>>Ate Douma
> >>>Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:38 PM
> >>>To: [email protected]
> <mailto: [email protected]>
> >>>Subject: Re: [Wicket-user] Integrating FCKeditor
> >>>
> >>>Nick Heudecker wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>I'm looking to integrate a _javascript_ WYSIWYG editor into Wicket,
> >>>>similar to DatePicker. FCKeditor is LGPL, so I don't think
> >>>
> >>>there's a
> >>>
> >>>>licensing problem. Any thoughts or advice before I start
> >>>
> >>>doing this?
> >>>I have no opinion (yet) on the technical merits of FCKeditor
> >>>or any other editor.
> >>>But, I'm not in favor of introducing LGPL as Wicket is under
> >>>the Apache 2.0 license.
> >>>LGPL really cannot be seen as comparable nor compatible to
> >>>the Apache 2.0 license and in my opinion introducing it now
> >>>might harm acceptability of Wicket in the end.
> >>>
> >>>There are other options with more compatible licenses,
> >>>although I don't know if they match FCKeditor on features and
> >>>technical quality.
> >>>
> >>>For one, there is kupu which has a BSD-style license.
> >>>I haven't used or worked with it myself, but I know others
> >>>have embedded it very successfully in several CMS engines,
> >>>like Zope, Apache Lenya and recently Apache Graffito which
> >>>uses it for editing html documents within a JSR-168 compliant
> portlet.
> >>>
> >>>If you are interested: http://kupu.oscom.org/ Online docs are
> >>>available from their subversion repository:
> >>> http://codespeak.net/svn/kupu/trunk/kupu/doc/
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>
> >>>Ate
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
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