That one kills me:
> Patrick (WebWork):
> "I've found that "HTML/CSS developers" and "app developers" rarely
are >separated
>like Tapestry likes to pretend they are"
I could not disgree more with that, only geeks working on their ugly
homepage say this.
In large companies you have dev on one sides, web designers(on mac's) on
another.
The devs are paid higher, so the boss don't want them to spend there
tine doing HTML, which they are not good at anyhow.
The Designer can only work correctly if they get clean HTML.
That is why JSF is crap in my opinion, i should know, we use SAP at my
company and it's based on JSF (yuk), they can't even open those pages in
dreamweavre. they are so full of code, it makes it crash, which is
probaly just as well because they would mess the code up for sure anyhow.
Neither me or the designer like thos pages, they are barely readable by
either of us.
It's interesting how he says that because of Ajax, developer will have
to do the html even more. I really don't like javascript (because it's
messy and the browser issues), yet ajax is very nice and powerfull,
makes me even more want to use something like wicket which has a nice
aproach to Ajax (ie: you don't have to deal with javascript directly for
the most part)
Anyhow, they can think what they want, that is just more choices for
developers, i'm just sad there is such a push for JSF though, IMO it's
the worst of the lot.
Johan Compagner wrote:
Like reading the statements of others:
Jacob (JSF):
"Tapestry: For a component framework, it still sticks to the
page/action paradigm,
Because JSF isn't tied to the action/page paradigm, parts of the
component tree
can be agnostically processed without requiring special
cases/development."
is this really true about tapestry? Is it really that "static"?
Back in the days i worked with it ajax was not there so no requirement
for it so
i don't know it anymore.
Geert (Rife):
"Wicket's strength is its pure Java approach, but that's also its
crutch. Configuration and
declaration can't be summarized and waived away by stating that "XML
sucks."
Huh? It is Java ! you can do everything. If you want xml
configuration. Go ahead!
The total statement he makes is in my eyes ridicules.
Gavin (Seam): could like wicket if he makes this statement about
tapestry:
"Very nice. The form validation stuff is *killer*! Templating approach
was very innovative in
its time. The non-POJOness of the component model is a showstopper for
me."
Tim (Stripes):
"If I were in a situation in which I needed to develop such an
application for a client and the
client didn't want to use AJAX, I would probably look at Wicket. I've
looked at Wicket
before (although not used it in anger) and am impressed with the
quality and focus on
simplicity in the project."
He really should look again! Why does he think he can't use ajax?
The combination works great!
Howard over Tapestry 5: that looks a lot of wicket features :)
Interessting to see what the end result of for example this will be:
"Smart class loader; pick up changes to classes automatically and
efficiently."
Because if you define youre own classloader in youre web app then nothing
that loads through that classloader can be stored as a serializeable
thing in the session.
Patrick (WebWork):
"I've found that "HTML/CSS developers" and "app developers" rarely are
separated
like Tapestry likes to pretend they are"
This is so not true.. i think i also heard this from Jason Carreira.
Almost every java developer i know (inclusing myself) are not very
good designers..
The opposite. very good designer as absolutely no java developers
That specific kind of persons are very hard to find.
I guess its the way of thinking.
Eelco about tapestry: "and the templates are more flexible in use
than are Wicket's."
Nice thing is that i just hear from a friend (and again a another
friend of his who is
a tapestry user for a long time) that they really like the pages of
wicket because
they are so flexible (dynamic)
johan
On 3/25/06, *Eelco Hillenius* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
FYI, Matt Raible asked me to give my opinion about Wicket and some of
it's competitors. He presenting it tonight at the server side
symposium, and you can find his presentation here:
http://www.virtuas.com/articles/webframework-sweetspots.html
<http://www.virtuas.com/articles/webframework-sweetspots.html>
Eelco
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