Updated blog with ODNB (49,419 men, 5,581 women) plot.

On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 1:31 PM Jane Darnell <[email protected]> wrote:

> Yes you have a point there, and it is this "systemic interweb gender bias"
> which is interesting. Due to our need for "reliable sources" to solve
> gendergap issues, it would be nice to be able to expose these "interweb"
> imbalances with graphs like yours for all databases. What does the ODNB
> look like? That one is completely matched now. I measured 10% women over
> all.
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 2:17 PM, Magnus Manske <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Google image search for properly licensed images didn't give me an image
>> of her, neither did Commons. Maybe I just overlooked it, but maybe there is
>> no image of her in the article because there is no free image of her? In
>> that case, it would not be bias of Wikipedia, but again bias of the
>> interwebs.
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 1:07 PM Jane Darnell <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Exactly! However, I do think this example woman shows a Wikipedia gender
>>> bias towards men in that her husband's article has an image and hers doesn't
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 1:54 PM, Magnus Manske <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:46 PM Jane Darnell <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well here you get into a problem with data in the databases. Often the
>>>>> records for men are more fleshed out than for women.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are two records in the RKD for male and female based on a
>>>>> US-based husband & wife duo never active in the Netherlands, but who were
>>>>> made popular (with articles on 4 or more language wikis)  by a 2014 movie
>>>>> about them:
>>>>> https://rkd.nl/explore/artists/296853
>>>>> https://rkd.nl/explore/artists/296851
>>>>>
>>>>> The ULAN only has one record
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.getty.edu/vow/ULANFullDisplay?find=&role=&nation=&subjectid=500333900
>>>>>
>>>>> One could argue that there is not enough in any of these records to
>>>>> make a Wikidata entry, let alone a Wikipedia article in any language. So
>>>>> just having the record in the ULAN or the RKDartists will not help any
>>>>> language-pedia. The English Wikipedia includes of course articles for 
>>>>> both,
>>>>> though they are not sourced to these databases at all.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Which only shows that RKD/ULAN are not the basis for Wikipedia
>>>> articles. Your "example woman" has 13 references:
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Keane
>>>>
>>>> But, the argument could be made that general coverage on the web is
>>>> biased towards men, and Wikipedia reflects that trend, if only for a lack
>>>> of sources.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> In comparison, here is a US male artist without any Wikipedia article,
>>>>> born the same year as Mrs. Keane, whose entry in the RKD is well fleshed
>>>>> out, because this person was active in Amsterdam
>>>>> https://rkd.nl/explore/artists/55977
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 12:35 PM, Magnus Manske <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, a "local bias" would push the total coverage in a certain
>>>>>> language, as evidences by high nl.wp coverage for RKD but not for ULAN. 
>>>>>> But
>>>>>> how would that affect the gender bias? No matter how popular RKDartists 
>>>>>> are
>>>>>> on a Wikipedia, unbiased coverage should always put them on the line in 
>>>>>> my
>>>>>> plots. However, only the almost-complete Wikipedias come near that line.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:27 AM Jane Darnell <[email protected]>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Magnus,
>>>>>>> That is very cool! I also noticed the same trend, which indeed does
>>>>>>> at first glance appear to be a male bias in the language wikis. However,
>>>>>>> drilling down into the actual data it's really not so bad. What you
>>>>>>> actually see is a strong bias from the ULAN for artists who have been
>>>>>>> active in the US for whatever reason (artworks in US museum, 
>>>>>>> exhibition, or
>>>>>>> public art). The RKD has a similar strong bias for artists who have been
>>>>>>> active in the Northern & Southern Netherlands and adjoining countries 
>>>>>>> (nl,
>>>>>>> fr + de). We should offset this by looking at other databases, and also
>>>>>>> looking at the same cross-wiki data for all biographies with
>>>>>>> occupation=artist.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jane
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Magnus Manske <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://magnusmanske.de/wordpress/?p=278
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 24, 2015 at 8:48 AM Jane Darnell <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>>> I am compiling some stats regarding the work done on the Art &
>>>>>>>>> Feminism edit-a-thons for my local chapter and while checking the 
>>>>>>>>> state of
>>>>>>>>> the wikis regarding female artists I noticed that there are huge local
>>>>>>>>> differences per language wiki regarding "who is notable". One of the 
>>>>>>>>> things
>>>>>>>>> I love about Mix-and-Match is the way you can easily check the 
>>>>>>>>> sitelinks
>>>>>>>>> per wiki. You can also download the data with autolist to see which
>>>>>>>>> biographies are popular across different languages. I noticed that in 
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> case of women this seems to be way different than for men. Women 
>>>>>>>>> artists
>>>>>>>>> are more likely to be notable in one or two languages only, possibly
>>>>>>>>> because they travel less, making their art known more locally than
>>>>>>>>> otherwise - who knows?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> In any case, here is something to chew on:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Women_vs_Men_per_external_db_using_Mix-n-Match.jpg
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I wish we had more databases from more countries that only contain
>>>>>>>>> artists that we could load into Mix-and-Match!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Jane
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Wiki-research-l mailing list
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>>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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