Hi Kerry, Your comments are well taken (at least by me)!
I like the idea of letting users upvote or downvote edits, and having a time-weighted average of those scores be public or at least visible to administrators. Users who accumulate a significant number of downvotes would be good for admins to review, especially if those downvotes come from multiple users in a short period of time. Upvotes could be closely linked to the "Thanks" feature, except that users could be offered the option to thank anonymously or thank non-anonymously. I suggest that you propose your suggestions in IdeaLab, and I may make some comments on the IdeaLab post. The Anti-Harrassment Tools Team might be interested in that idea for their own reasons. Regarding reversions, I think that I heard Jonathan Morgan once say that reverting good-faith new editors makes them significantly more likely to stop editing. Perhaps he could share some research or thoughts on that point, and any other thoughts about the problem with excessively aggressive reversions and/or comments on reversions. Pine ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) On Thu, Sep 27, 2018 at 4:47 AM Kerry Raymond <[email protected]> wrote: > While I have no objection to the administrator training, I don't think > most of the problem lies with administrators. There's a lot of biting of > the good-faith newbies done by "ordinary" editors (although I have seen > some admins do it too). And, while I agree that there are many good folk > out there on en.WP, unfortunately the newbie tends to meet the other folk > first or perhaps it's that 1 bad experience has more impact than one good > experience. > > Similarly while Arbcom's willingness to desysop folks is good, I doubt a > newbie knows how or where to complain in the first instance. Also there's a > high level of defensive reaction if they do. Some of my trainees have > contacted me about being reverted for clearly good-faith edits on the most > spurious of reasons. When I have restored their edit with a hopefully > helpful explanation, I often get reverted too. If a newbie takes any action > themselves, it is likely to be an undo and that road leads to 3RR block or > at least a 3RR warning. The other action they take is to respond on their > User Talk page (when there is a message there to respond to). However, such > replies are usually ignored, whether the other user isn't watching for a > reply or whether they just don't like their authority to be challenged, I > don't know. But it rarely leads to a satisfactory resolution. > > One of the problems we have with Wikipedia is that most of us tend to see > it edit-by-edit (whether we are talking about a new edit or a revert of an > edit), we don't ever see a "big picture" of a user's behaviour without a > lot of tedious investigation (working through their recent contributions > one by one). So, it's easy to think "I am not 100% sure that the > edit/revert I saw was OK but I really don't have time to see if this is > one-off or a consistent problem". Maybe we need a way to privately "express > doubt" about an edit (in the way you can report a Facebook post). Then if > someone starts getting too many "doubtful edits" per unit time (or > whatever), it triggers an admin (or someone) to take a closer look at what > that user is up to. I think if we had a lightweight way to express doubt > about any edit, then we could use machine learning to detect patterns that > suggest specific types of undesirable user behaviours that can really only > be seen as a "big picture". > > Given this is the research mailing list, I guess we should we talking > about ways research can help with this problem. > > Kerry > > -----Original Message----- > From: Wiki-research-l [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Pine W > Sent: Wednesday, 26 September 2018 1:07 PM > To: Wiki Research-l <[email protected]>; Rosie > Stephenson-Goodknight <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [Wiki-research-l] Results from 2018 global Wikimedia survey > are published! > > I'm appreciative that we're having this conversation - not in the sense > that I'm happy with the status quo, but I'm glad that some of us are > continuing to work on our persistent difficulties with contributor > retention, civility, and diversity. > > I've spent several hours on ENWP recently, and I've been surprised by the > willingness of people to revert good-faith edits, sometimes with blunt > commentary or with no explanation. I can understand how a newbie who > experienced even one of these incidents would find it to be unpleasant, > intimidating, or discouraging. Based on these experiences, I've decided > that I should coach newbies to avoid taking reversions personally if their > original contributions were in good faith. > > I agree with Jonathan Morgan that WP:NOTSOCIAL can be overused. > > Kerry, I appreciate your suggestions about about cultural change. I can > think of two ways to influence culture on English Wikipedia in large-scale > ways. > > 1. I think that there should be more and higher-quality training and > continuing education for administrators in topics like policies, conflict > resolution, communications skills, legal issues, and setting good examples. > I think that these trainings would be one way through which cultural > change could gradually happen over time. For what it's worth, I think that > there are many excellent administrators who do a lot of good work (which > can be tedious and/or stressful) with little appreciation. Also, my > impression is that ENWP Arbcom has become more willing over the years to > remove admin privileges from admins who misuse their tools. I recall having > a discussion awhile back with Rosie on the topic of training for > administrators, and I'm adding her to this email chain as an invitation for > her to participate in this discussion. I think that offering training to > administrators could be helpful in facilitating changes to ENWP culture. > > 2. I think that I can encourage civil participation in ENWP in the context > of my training project < > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Grants:Project/Rapid/Pine/Continuation_of_educational_video_and_website_project > > > that I'm hoping that WMF will continue to fund. ENWP is a complex and > sometimes emotionally difficult environment, and I'm trying to set a tone > in the online training materials that is encouraging. I hope to teach > newbies about the goals of Wikipedia as well as policies, how to use tools, > and Wikipedia culture. I am hopeful that the online training materials will > improve the confidence of new contributors, improve the retention of new > contributors, and help new editors to increase the quality and quantity of > their contributions. I hope that early portions of the project will be well > received and that, over time and if the project is successful as it > incrementally increases in scale and reach, that it will influence the > overall culture of ENWP to be more civil. > > Regards, > > Pine > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine ) > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki-research-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l > _______________________________________________ Wiki-research-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki-research-l
