https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=35133
--- Comment #4 from badon <[email protected]> 2012-03-16 02:12:56 UTC --- (In reply to comment #3) > Hmm, interesting. > > By the way, have you read [[mw:User:NeilK/Multimedia2011/Titles]]? Some of > Neil's thoughts are quite similar to your own I've never seen it before, but I like some of his ideas better than my own, especially the part about internationalization. I had not considered internationalization when I wrote up my ideas here. > So basically what you're suggesting is another layer of indirection? I'm going > to repeat back what I think you're saying to see if I understand. > > *User uploads a file. It becomes some random string (base 36 sha1 hash of its > contents would perhaps be a good choice. So something like > nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae > *Somehow, user then associates the file they just uploaded with a "real" file > name. > > So the user might associate nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae with > [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator.jpg]], and then could reference the image > nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae by using the code > [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator.jpg]] in wikitext. > > Individual file pages would not be intimately associated with the file they > represent, they're more like pointers to a specific file. Other file pages > could also be associated with a specific file, a file page could be > unassociated on a whim, etc. Yes, mostly. But, I envisioned it a bit differently. If no file name is specified, the file name becomes: [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator.jpg]] But if a file name is specified, it then becomes: [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator_nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae.jpg]] That does not handle internationalization of the file name, but even though I like NeilK's proposal, I disagree that internationalization is required or even desired. I feel that file names are mostly obstructive, and should be reduced to meaninglessness. His proposal accommodates that viewpoint too, though. In his proposal, everything still works without internationalization, and without meaningful file names of any kind. His concerns about deception in the meaning of the file name are unimportant, since that kind of deception has always been possible, and will always be possible. There's no way to eliminate it, other than actually seeing images instead of meaningless file names. File names are already just as meaningless now as they will be when the proposals of NeilK and myself are implemented. > When thought that crossed my mind, is that we're slowly moving in the > direction > of file names being less permanent, but from the other direction (With > features > like moving of file pages). I like simple solutions, and this is a simple solution. If you want to change the name, or internationalize it, a legion of redirects could be used for as many languages as you wanted to support. > >In fact, the only place where I think a descriptive file name is useful is > >when > >looking at code, and you're trying to figure out what image the code is > >describing. Indeed, the future direction of MediaWiki seems to be pushing > >away > >from code as much as is practical, into the Visual Editor and WYSIWYG editing > > That's still quite a long way off. And even then, I (personally) have my > doubts > on how much it will be accepted by old timers. I think it will result in a > mix, > where a stubborn portion (to pull numbers out of my hat, I will guess 10%) > will > still use the wikitext. It's not very far off. Already, maybe 1 in 10,000 (or less) Wikipedia users ever see the code. Instead, they all see the images themselves. The only thing that will change is the barrier to becoming an editor. There are always good reasons to have direct access to the code, so the code will never go away, I hope. That doesn't mean we have to use it - it only means we CAN use it, if needed...Kind of like flour and eggs instead of sliced bread. We can bake a cake with the flour and eggs, or we can make a quick sandwich with the sliced bread. Both are useful, and never going to go away. > ---- > >Each "version" could have an incremented > >"file name" that is optionally used in the [[File:...]] syntax "template" > >call > >if a specific version is desired. If a specific version is not desired, > >simply > >omit the version number, and the most recent (highest numbered) "version" is > >automatically used. > > Even as the system is right now, it might be useful to have syntax like > [[File:SomeFile.png|version=20100101111310]] which would reference a specific > version of an image. (and I believe such a change would be relatively simple) That's a simple solution, and I like simple solutions. The way I envisioned it would look like this: [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator_nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae.jpg]] <!-- Always uses the most recent version. --> [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator_nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae_1.jpg]] <!-- Always uses the first version. --> [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator_nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae_2.jpg]] <!-- Always uses the second version. --> Using the simple syntax you suggested, it would look like this: [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator_nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae.jpg]] <!-- Always uses the most recent version. --> [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator_nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae.jpg|1]] <!-- Always uses the first version. --> [[File:Saskatchewan_Farm_Elevator_nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae.jpg|2]] <!-- Always uses the second version. --> Both sets of examples above assume that the uploader specified a file name. In a perfect world, the file name would not exist, and it would look like this: [[File:nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae.jpg]] <!-- Always uses the most recent version. --> [[File:nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae.jpg|1]] <!-- Always uses the first version. --> [[File:nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae.jpg|2]] <!-- Always uses the second version. --> One way to make a visual editor IMMEDIATELY useful is to cause the image thumbnail to be displayed when hovering over the code. Then, there's know need for internationalization, no need for descriptive filenames - in short, the image speaks a thousand words and does not need any sort of translation into text. Of course, NeilK's suggestion to omit file extensions would mean that the above example would look like this: [[File:nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae]] <!-- Always uses the most recent version. --> [[File:nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae|1]] <!-- Always uses the first version. --> [[File:nw0i4k7agg53rak074baj2fqowrxmae|2]] <!-- Always uses the second version. --> I think that might be the future, but the world is not ready for extensionless files, in my opinion. Is it audio, visual, both, or neither? The extension carries that information in some dominant operating systems, so for now, I think the extensions shouldn't be removed completely. But, I see no reason why it should be REQUIRED. So, the above example should still work without a file name extension, but that syntax should not be encouraged, because it will achieve very little, and possibly cause unnecessary confusion. Very good thinking on your part, Bawolff. I always enjoy working with you to solve problems. I wish everyone were like you. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. You are on the CC list for the bug. _______________________________________________ Wikibugs-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikibugs-l
