Denny, sorry for the confusion, it is a complex topic, or it could also be that I am terribly bad at explaining :) Based on that item page I have made a mock-up which perhaps makes things easier: http://i.imgur.com/1dSfrqx.png
The reasoning for this being: 1) there is a well-defined set of queries that are equivalent to categories/lists, so there is no need to have independent query pages 2) if a wikipedia wants to include query results on a page, it is quite probable that the query already exists as a list/category 3) and if it doesn't then it will be *very* specific to that language wikipedia. In that case there is no need to define a query page on wikidata, but on the wikipedia page itself as an inclusion syntax command or another similar module You are right that it might be a bit preliminary, as there are not even simple queries yet, but since this kind of decisions might have an impact on later design, I think it is worth start presenting the concepts/options now. Besides, ideas and a common understanding take time to develop, and the RFC was started, so I thought it was worth giving it some attention. Cheers, Micru On Fri, Mar 7, 2014 at 12:18 AM, Denny Vrandečić <[email protected]>wrote: > Since I am obviously bad at guessing what you mean, can you please > explicate what you mean with "replicate that functionality on Wikidata"? > > Sorry, I am too dense to understand it. > > What do you want to happen, explicitly? > > I go to http://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q6573995 - how should it be > different from what it displays today? > > Do you want the item pages to have the feature to directly embed query > results, instead of having a one-click distance to the actual query page > and its results? > > Or is there more to it? > > > > > On Thu Mar 06 2014 at 3:10:44 PM, David Cuenca <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I'm not saying that the results yielded by "Category:Books by Jean-Paul >> Sartre" or "Category:Books by J.R.R. Tolkien" are or should be the same as >> the result yielded by a corresponding Wikidata query, but the concepts they >> represent, they are the same. Ditto for lists. >> (As a further clarification, I didn't mention anything about changing >> Wikipedia categories or Wikipedia lists either.) >> >> My question was regarding the functionality of WD items associated with >> Wikipedia categories and Wikipedia lists. >> Conceptually those items represent (or can represent) queries. >> WDQ, the tool by Magnus, already can interpret certain statements as >> queries [1]. >> Would it make sense to replicate that functionality on Wikidata? >> >> Cheers, >> Micru >> >> [1] http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=6573995 >> >> >> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 11:16 PM, Denny Vrandečić <[email protected]>wrote: >> >>> But that's simply not the case. The Category:Books by Jean-Paul Sartre >>> [1] or Category:Books by J.R.R. Tolkien [2} neither are a complete list of >>> books by those authors (e.g. Sartre's fictional books are missing, >>> Tolkien's non-fictional *and* Middle earth books are missing), nor are they >>> only including books by Tolkien (e.g. they also include templates and other >>> categories, which are likely not written by Sartre or Tolkien). >>> >>> If the plan is to change the way categories are used in Wikipedia and >>> the other Wikimedia wikis, I'd say this is a very different goal, but >>> should be discussed on those wikis. >>> >>> List-articles often contain much more love and care than a Wikidata >>> query result will for a while. I don't think that replacing an article like >>> the list of books by David Foster Wallace [3] the List of US Presidents [4] >>> with a single simple query is a short-term goal. >>> >>> [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Books_by_Jean-Paul_Sartre >>> [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Books_by_J._R._R._Tolkien >>> [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Books_by_David_Foster_Wallace >>> [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_US_Presidents >>> >>> >>> On Thu Mar 06 2014 at 1:49:54 PM, David Cuenca <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The point I wanted to make (following your example), is that the >>>> Wikidata Query "All novels by Douglas Adams" is equivalent to the item >>>> "Category:Novels by Douglas Adams" [1]. In other cases there will be even 3 >>>> items representing the same information: the wd query, the category item, >>>> and a "list of..." item. So I'm just wondering if this complexity is really >>>> needed for structural/technical reasons. >>>> >>>> Maybe there is an easier way instead of linking to the wd query with a >>>> "category's main query" property? >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Micru >>>> >>>> [1] https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q8687492 >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 7:24 PM, Lydia Pintscher < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 9:01 PM, David Cuenca <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> > I would like to make you aware of this RFC started by Gerard: >>>>> > >>>>> https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Wikidata:Requests_for_comment/Define_lists_on_both_%22Wikimedia_lists%22_and_%22Wikimedia_categories%22 >>>>> > >>>>> > It is interesting because in the end, what is the difference between >>>>> a list, >>>>> > a category, and a query? Not much, really. >>>>> > >>>>> > I'm curious to know if the approach taken with queries will be the >>>>> same as >>>>> > the WDQ >>>>> > http://tools.wmflabs.org/reasonator/?&q=6573995 >>>>> > >>>>> > Items like "List of..." or "Category:" would have some use, but the >>>>> > development notes don't state if this is the intended path >>>>> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikidata/Development/Queries >>>>> > >>>>> > Any thoughts about it? >>>>> >>>>> I've been trying to understand the RfC 3 times now and still fail. So >>>>> I can't answer your questions unfortunately. >>>>> >>>>> The short and simplified version of how complex queries will work: >>>>> * someone defines a query on a page in a special query namespace (eg >>>>> "everything that has author = Douglas Adams") >>>>> * the result of the query is a list of items matching the query >>>>> * the Wikipedias can include the result of the query and visualize it >>>>> in certain ways on a page. (eg the wikitext of the article "List of >>>>> works by Douglas Adams" would have a call to include the query result >>>>> from Wikidata) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Lydia >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Lydia Pintscher - http://about.me/lydia.pintscher >>>>> Product Manager for Wikidata >>>>> >>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e.V. >>>>> Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 >>>>> 10963 Berlin >>>>> www.wikimedia.de >>>>> >>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland - Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens e. V. >>>>> >>>>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts Berlin-Charlottenburg >>>>> unter der Nummer 23855 Nz. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das >>>>> Finanzamt für Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/681/51985. >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Etiamsi omnes, ego non >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikidata-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> Etiamsi omnes, ego non >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata-l > > -- Etiamsi omnes, ego non
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