I am confused at this statement as it seems very chicken-egg circular: "I still don't see why this project needs any special property at all when you can create listeria lists from unordered lists of item numbers. If you have a list anywhere on a Wikipedia project, you can also run queries using Petscan."
Where exactly do we get this unordered list of item numbers? So we generate a spreadsheet of Q numbers of Wikipedia entries? That lives on various language Wikipedias or on a project page somewhere? Instead of the language neutral and centralized Wikidata? How exactly does that work? How do we maintain that dataset in an efficient and non-manual way? How does it interact with Wikidata? I really don't understand this glib explanation, and how it solves the needs the projects have for task lists. *Erika Herzog* Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>* On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 3:18 AM, Jane Darnell <[email protected]> wrote: > Yes to exactly this part of your email: "Gerard and I thought we had > consensus on this, but apparently not. We need to find some solution that > will address all concerns." > The rest of your email is irrelevant to using the property for "catalog" > on person items on Wikidata when there is no catalog. Please just publish > the catalog somewhere and then link to it from your "Black Lunch Table" > item. If you don't have a catalog and the project itself is building the > catalog, then this property is definitely the wrong way to go. I have tried > to read through the material you made available, but I still don't see why > this project needs any special property at all when you can create listeria > lists from unordered lists of item numbers. If you have a list anywhere on > a Wikipedia project, you can also run queries using Petscan. > > On Fri, Jan 5, 2018 at 6:12 AM, Brill Lyle <[email protected]> wrote: > >> First off, thanks so much for the support and assistance in understanding >> the work being done here. Thanks to those editors who restored the >> wholesale deletion of the catalog property. >> >> Secondly: While the Black Lunch Table is unique in both its scope and >> outreach, other projects are using the category in actual "real-world >> things." They are not internal WikiProjects. >> >> An example of this is the GLAM project for Colección Patricia Phelps de >> Cisneros (CPPC). CPPC is a large and active private Latin American art >> collection that is improving coverage of Latin American artists on the >> projects, with the intention of adding at minimum articles in English, >> Spanish, and Portuguese. Which is why Wikidata is so helpful, for it's >> language neutral interchangeability of the scaffolding of metadata and the >> establishment of notability via VIAF and other identifiers. >> >> The CPPC GLAM project has multiple task lists and SPARQL queries in >> Listeria tables. CPPC also plans on doing an image donation to the Commons >> in the next 6-12 months as the project develops and as full metadata is >> collected and implemented in the most robust Wikidata-centric way. But >> first the publications and artist metadata needed to be populated. >> >> Here's the task lists: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ >> Wikipedia:GLAM/Colección_Patricia_Phelps_de_Cisneros/Tasks >> >> This is not a WikiProject, but is a GLAM (Galleries, Libraries, Archives, >> Museums) initiative. >> >> So should GLAM outreach and Wikipedia:Meetup projects like BLT have >> something specially created to cover this type of outreach? >> >> I believe that other potential outreach institutional partners would want >> to be implementing usage of Wikidata in this way as well. With this >> Wikidata-in-a-Box approach, the idea is to expand and improve upon common >> outreach requirements (like task lists), setting up a replicable structure >> and process that reduces administrative burden and doesn't require >> re-inventing the wheel over and over again. Because the fact is that there >> is definitely an exponential need for this work -- and this need is only >> going to increase and expand in scope, hopefully. As long as things like >> what happened here don't happen again and discourage this work and destroy >> outreach efforts. >> >> So it would help to have consensus of some type to support this outreach >> going forward. >> >> Gerard and I thought we had consensus on this, but apparently not. We >> need to find some solution that will address all concerns. >> >> Thanks again, >> >> - Erika >> >> *Erika Herzog* >> Wikipedia *User:BrillLyle <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:BrillLyle>* >> >> On Thu, Jan 4, 2018 at 11:21 AM, James Heald <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Better to use P4570, or a new bespoke property, since the things these >>> people are being tagged to be part of, or participants in, like "Black >>> Lunch Table", are not external real-world things, but internal wiki-world >>> projects. >>> >>> It is useful to maintain a distinction between the two -- it helps to >>> avoid the confusion that has been the root of the issue with P972. >>> >>> -- James. >>> >>> >>> >>> On 04/01/2018 16:10, Thad Guidry wrote: >>> >>>> "relatedness" or "tagging" is typically handled generically in Wikidata >>>> through the use of "part of" and "has part" properties. >>>> They work terrifically well to apply some generic classification needs >>>> such >>>> as those of the Black Lunch Table efforts. >>>> >>>> So, an alternative to the current modeling could be... >>>> >>>> Are they only persons ? if so, mark them as "participant of" -> >>>> "Q28781198" Black Lunch Table >>>> Are the topics needing some "tagging" for classification sometimes more >>>> than persons ? if so, mark them as "part of" -> "Q28781198" Black Lunch >>>> Table >>>> >>>> -Thad >>>> >>>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikidata mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikidata mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikidata > >
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