quite right, nothing simplistic about it. realistic On Fri, Mar 28, 2008 at 5:08 AM, David Wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I realize my way of thinking about these things is simplistic (hey - > it's all I'm capable of!), but in my mind: > > open educational resources + open learning support + open > credentialing = open education > > So OER is an important, infrastructure-like piece, but is certainly > not equivalent with open education. We need large numbers of people to > have access to OERs before we can figure out how to answer questions > and provide other support, and we have to do these two things before > we can move on to awarding people degrees. > > D > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 5:49 PM, Leigh Blackall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > This is awesome David, it will be right up there with the South African > > Curriculum on Wikibooks, but taking it one step further by the sound of > it. > > > > Peter, I agree.. many are perhaps misusing the word 'education', but > rest > > assured, Otago Polytechnic is working towards Open Education as well as > Open > > Learning... > > > > I think this is an important distinction you make in the OER effort and > > should be carried further. It will help up the ante I reckon, into what > you > > initially call for in this thread... Open Access, Open Learning AND Open > > Education.. and if that can be free (as in beer) then great! Or at > least, > > vastly reduced in cost... > > > > > > > > On Thu, Mar 27, 2008 at 9:47 AM, David Wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > > Peter, > > > > > > The content will be open to everyone, but enrollment in the school > > > will be restricted to those in the state of Utah (since the state govt > > > pays the bills). > > > > > > D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 10:39 AM, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > David, > > > > > > > > This is great to read. What an amazing step to put all this forward > as > > > > an OER Highschool. You say it will be free to students in Utah, > will > > > > students outside of Utah still have access? Or will all this just > be > > > > "open" within the state of Utah? And therefore be used to prove out > > > > the model... > > > > > > > > There is one thing that jumps out at me from within this discussion > > > > thread. Are we mis-using the word "Education" within OER. As we > seem > > > > to have agreement that Education is the whole, where learning is > what > > > > you do with the resources. Education includes the assessment, > > > > accreditation, etc. that the educational institutions provide. > > > > Shouldn't we really be calling these materials Open Learning > Resources > > > > (OLR). My point being (in the context of this Bissell article; > > > > > > > http://learn.creativecommons.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/bissellboyleedtecarticle.pdf > ); > > > > Don't we require Open Access Assessment and Open Access > Accrediation > > > > before we can achieve OER? Because this then makes free the whole > of > > > > Education. Wikipedia and Open Source have nothing restraining their > > > > domain toward openness. OER has a huge restraint in that Assessment > > > > and Accreditation are still closed. As we stumble toward OER don't > we > > > > need to wrestle it (assessment, accreditaion) away from the > > > > institutions (like MIT, UNESCO, OU, etc) and also make it open and > > > > free? And not until we have wrestled it away, OERs success will be > > > > restrained. I wonder what Paulo Friere would have to say about the > > > > institutions still controlling the Assessment and Accreditation? > > > > > > > > I look forward to your reply(ies)... > > > > > > > > P > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 26, 8:40 am, "David Wiley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Simon and Leigh, > > > > > > > > > > We haven't been talking about it much, because we're still one > step > > in > > > > > the approval process away, but for a year now we've been working > on > > > > > establishing the Open High School of Utah - a publicly funded > (and > > > > > therefore free as in beer to students in the state of Utah) > > completely > > > > > online high school that uses OERs exclusively throughout the > entire > > > > > curriculum. The final approval should be given this May for a > Fall > > > > > 2009 opening in which we'll admit a class of 9th graders, meaning > > that > > > > > we'll have 15 months or so to put together the entire 9th grade > > > > > curriculum's worth of OERs built out to stand-alone quality (i.e > ., > > not > > > > > OERs to supplement textbooks, OERs as the primary content for the > > high > > > > > school). Then in 2010 we'll do 9th and 10th grade, etc., until in > > 2012 > > > > > we're running all four years of high school. > > > > > > > > > > All the materials will be freely available, as will our charter > > > > > document, as will all the technology we will use to run the > school. > > We > > > > > hope to be a model of how OERs can revolutionize the practice and > the > > > > > funding of both learning AND education... > > > > > > > > > > D > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Leigh Blackall > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Great post Simon, I enjoy your wit :) > > > > > > > > > > > Maybe I should clarify what I say about "learning being free, > > education > > > > > > still costs" > > > > > > > > > > > I mean the same as you mean - learning is what people are > always > > free to do, > > > > > > and with todays enhanced capacity to access information and > > communication, > > > > > > learning might be vastly improved. > > > > > > > > > > > But what is education in all that? Well, to me education is the > > formality > > > > > > that we agree is the extra, inflated, and fee driven bit. > Education > > is the > > > > > > bit of paper that says you have been learning... > > > > > > > > > > > So I think we actually agree, but it may be that I'm being a > bit > > too cynical > > > > > > in my use of the work education. > > > > > > > > > > > Here's a longer post I wrote on it if you're still troubled by > my > > slogan. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 26, 2008 at 1:52 PM, simonfj <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mar 25, 2:05 pm, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Cormac, Leigh, Simon, Others... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for the great feedback. I certainly hope some others > > jump in... > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cormac, > > > > > > > > > > > > > There is a body of work where the evaluation of a persons > > contribution > > > > > > > > is evaluated via software; it's not so advanced that it can > > target a > > > > > > > > single person and evaluate what they have done... probably > one > > day > > > > > > > > (soon), see these two > > > > > > > > > references;http://www.research.ibm.com/visual/projects/history_flow/http://www.s... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Ooo! I can't see it. But that's only because i never have. > > Evaluation > > > > > > > to me, and I've had to employ graduates to do media jobs, > always > > comes > > > > > > > down to seeing of they, or their teachers, can do it. i.e. > have > > > > > > > institutions prepared the inexperienced for it?. Old > industries, > > no > > > > > > > problem. New industries, like the interactive media ones; > rarely > > a > > > > > > > clue. > > > > > > > > > > > > Let me give you an illustration of a change going back 30 > years. > > Unis > > > > > > > were trying to "teach" AV production stuff. Many didn't have > a > > > > > > > recording desk. Even fewer had relationships with bands or > actors > > > > > > > interested in recording. Even if some students did, they > wouldn't > > be > > > > > > > encouraged to bring those noisy long haired gits into a > lovely > > clean > > > > > > > studio. > > > > > > > > > > > > So one dirty engineer in Sydney started offering courses in > his > > > > > > > studio, which now, though some unis in 49 countries, offers > > accredited > > > > > > > courses.http://www.sae.edu/. But it wasn't until the unis > were > > > > > > > included in the Learning mix of enough working engineers that > the > > > > > > > accreditations were given. Until then, we usually just gave > > students a > > > > > > > piece of paper, and for the more determined, helped them find > > them a > > > > > > > job. Now a three month course has inflated to three years. > > > > > > > > > > > > The thing i find fascinating - when watching new interactive > & > > global > > > > > > > media institutions, like Wikipedia, et al, get their Project > > Groups' > > > > > > > Learning ground(s) together and professionalize good habits, > > while at > > > > > > > the same time watching national Teaching institutions > struggling > > to > > > > > > > think outside their squares - is that nothing seems to have > > changed. > > > > > > > > > > > > In the professionals' web space, you see the beginnings of > global > > > > > > > interactive environments, which are obviously self sustaining > and > > > > > > > appear to help people meet peers, get their heads around the > > things a > > > > > > > good web designer needs to know and maybe get some (paid) > > experience. > > > > > > >http://www.sitepoint.com/forums/And then you look at unis' web > > sites/ > > > > > > > brochureware, ho! ho! One obviously puts an emphasis on > their > > > > > > > members' communications, the other on the institution's > > information. > > > > > > > i.e. communicating global GROUPS vs, National (.edu) > NETWORKS. > > > > > > > > > > > > As Cormac says, "you don't get a PhD, but you might be a damn > > sight > > > > > > > > > > > > more eligible to get a job with a certain employer > institution > > that is > > > > > > > open-minded enough to recognise this particular work done". I > > don't > > > > > > > think it's even a matter of them being open minded. It's more > a > > matter > > > > > > > that in the commercial world, one gets paid for results, and > if > > you > > > > > > > can point to something, like Liam can, who do you think will > get > > the > > > > > > > job?.This is very new ground. > > > > > > > > > > > > I also think Leigh is quite right. "Through an international > > network > > > > > > > > > > > > of teachers and assessors, we might see the cost of > > > > > > > such processes and services greatly reduced!" But you have to > > have the > > > > > > > "international network" first, and all we do have at the > moment > > is a > > > > > > > bunch of National .edu ones. Thankfully Web 2.0 Inc. are able > to > > help > > > > > > > fill the obvious gaps. But you got this wrong. "Learning is > still > > > > > > > free, education still costs". Nah, "accreditation still > costs". > > You > > > > > > > know, priests used to sell indulgences. That's why the > > Reformation > > > > > > > (supposedly) started. > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps, rather than talking about accreditation, we should > be > > talking > > > > > > > about where the new jobs are, what skills are required and > who's > > doing > > > > > > > the employing. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Leigh Blackall > > > > > > +64(0)21736539 > > > > > > skype - leigh_blackall > > > > > > SL - Leroy Goalpost > > > > > >http://learnonline.wordpress.com- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > - Show quoted text - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > -- > > Leigh Blackall > > +64(0)21736539 > > skype - leigh_blackall > > SL - Leroy Goalpost > > http://learnonline.wordpress.com > > > > > > > > > > > -- -- Leigh Blackall +64(0)21736539 skype - leigh_blackall SL - Leroy Goalpost http://learnonline.wordpress.com --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "WikiEducator" group. 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