On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 8:21 PM, Charles Matthews <[email protected]> wrote: > Larry Sanger wrote: >> Two more replies... >> >> Charles Matthews wrote: >> >>> Seems to me you are letting off a fair amount of steam here. >>> That is a >>> traditional role of mailing lists, and in particular of wikien. Your >>> unsubtle flaming of Jimmy here isn't likely to change too many minds; >>> which is more than can be said for some of your past and more >>> insidious >>> comments on Wikipedia, in more prominent places. So go ahead, if it >>> lances the boil. >>> >> >> Charles, I wrote an open letter, which has appeared on Jimmy Wales' user >> talk page as well as my blog, and now several other places--including this >> list. I'm not merely "flaming" Jimmy Wales on this list. I am publicly >> calling him to account. I am actually trying to achieve a certain effect, >> as I've explained. >> > Actually, though I may be an "inner circler", the combination of > forum-shopping and an intent to demonise by sheer assertion is not > unfamiliar to me. Come to think of it - tip of the tongue - ah yes, > you've decided to treat us to some "trolling". Those who have something > in mind that is not merely "effective" - as mudslinging may be - tend to > approach debates in other ways. > >>>Fred Bauder replied: > >> >>> As the promoter of >>> a competing project your interest is transparent. >>> >> >> Your insinuation here, Fred, deserves no reply. >> > I think that means you're not going to answer Fred, not that you needn't. > > Yes, the bit where you write: "Suffice it to say that, outside of > Wikipedia's inner circles and its Web 2.0 promoters and fans, > Wikipedia's reputation for honesty and decency is rather less than > sterling." You know, I think you may really feel that some people are > inattentive enough not to notice the elisions here. You argue, it seems, > that Jimmy Wales may not be a reliable witness in his own case. You > don't, apparently, think you need to justify the claim that you are, in > your own case. You start off trashing Jimmy's reputation, and then, hey > presto, it's Wikipedia's reputation as an anthropomorphised whole that's > in the pillory.
To quote Mr Sanger, "Wikipedia is bigger than Jimmy Wales." On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 7:04 PM, Larry Sanger <[email protected]> wrote: > Sam Korn replied: >> What hole are we in, pray? > > The reputation of Wikipedia as an endless source of scandal and dishonesty, > coupled with this open letter, in which I decided to use whatever weight my > views have in the "court of public opinion" to confront the project's > leading light. Deny it if you must, but you have a problem on your hands. Endless source of scandal and dishonesty? The reputation of Wikipedia? The project's leading light? I credit none of the three. >> Your concerns seem to be that Jimmy is not acknowledging your >> role and status as you'd like, and that the community and the >> Board are silent in the face of Jimmy's doing this. > > That's only part of it, and not the biggest part. My biggest complaint is > that Jimmy has lied about me, and a lot of people have believed him. I am > determined finally to hold Jimmy Wales to account for it. So it's personal. There's nothing wrong with that at all; from a certain point of view, I don't blame you. On the other hand, I'm not interested in getting involved. >> For my >> part, this silence may be attributed to insouciance -- I care >> little for the minutiae of history now eight years old and >> for your personal (yes, personal) dispute with Jimmy. >> >> Perhaps you can explain what the world at large, the >> Wikipedia community and I personally gain from publicly pursuing it. > > Well, Sam, if the honesty or dishonesty of your leader and chief spokesman > does not concern you, if you don't care that he has used his position to > distort the truth for personal gain, I doubt there is anything I can say > that will convince you. I do not consider Jimmy Wikipedia's leader or its chief spokesman. Perhaps you underestimate the extent to which the project is community-led, community-driven, community-focussed; I don't know. I am not interested, no, in this personal and now-irrelevant dispute. -- Sam PGP public key: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Sam_Korn/public_key _______________________________________________ WikiEN-l mailing list [email protected] To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l
