Dear Ilya, Leila, and others,
Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, I am not programmer, and I
can't help you with the development. I only know that Tools had severe
problems in the past, and it may not be a very reliable solution
because, if something happens to the server, you won't have direct
control and won't be able to solve the problem quickly. I had enough
trouble when map scripts for Wikivoyage were running there.
I have spoken to our jury members, and their request is two-fold. First,
the jury tool should be fully operational and stable before the contest
and not 1.5 months after its end. Second, it is highly desirable to
start the grading already in September, because processing 20,000 photos
in 25 days would be difficult.
When I am writing about alternatives, I also mean that the grading can
be organized with a very simple system of galleries and grading sheets
that lacks the nice graphical interface, but works reliably and directly
on Commons. And it perfectly fits our needs mentioned above. After our
recent WLE experience I seriously think that such a primitive system
will save us a lot of time and nerves. However, let's wait until the end
of August and see where we are.
From my side, I can test the system in the end of August and write my
comments about its usability. It will also help me to decide whether we
use WLX jury tool for WLM this year.
Sincerely,
Alexander
PS. Thanks for submitting the Phabricator tickets!
On 03.08.2016 11:38, Ilya Korniyko wrote:
I'll add on
* Creating next round - sorry for latency. This is already
implemented. On July 16 as Alexander mentioned himself
* Tool unavailability
** I installed monit service to reload jury tool and mysql when it
goes down. Will have to wait and see if this helps. Before this I
tried upstart and systemd configurations that also have respawn
option. Unfortunately they worked on Ubuntu/Debian/Centos 7, but not
on Centos 6 that is on WMUA's server, so I have to look for other tool
and used monit for this.
** Tool is already deployed on Tool Labs -
https://tools.wmflabs.org/wlxjury/auth
* [T141908 <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T141908>] Restriction
that users have contest assigned to them and cannot be added to
another - will be fixed by end of the week.
* [T141909 <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T141909>] Complete
export from the jury tool. It is actually available in the form of
exporting each juror rating or selection separately and overall rating
for rating rounds. What is suggested is to have overall number of
jurors that selected an image in the selection round and (Leila's
suggestion) one cross table with images as rows, jurors as columns and
rating/selections as cell. This is a trivial change as everything is
already loaded in statistics module, I'll just to have to output these
specific fields. Also will be done by end of the week.
Regarding alternate tool. Overall I think it's always good to have
alternative and understand what we have. I know at least two tools
which can to be good -
* Israel jury tool by User:Ynhockey
<https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ynhockey> (his own claim)
* Germany jury tool - http://tools.wmflabs.org/jury/ (Germany has
lots of images and usually select winners fast, so I hope their
tool is good)
Unfortunately I have not seen them, and their sources are not published.
Regarding developing of some completely new tool. I don't think it is
a serious option. It will be very effort consuming and
most certainly will not provide a better tool than already existing
ones. At least for this years WLM.
Regards,
Ilya
On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Lily
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Alexander and others, :)
*What I did in the past 2+ days*
I reviewed your comments carefully and talked with a subset of the
WLM international team including Ilya about the issues you have
raised. I also reached out to few people outside of the team, to
hear their thoughts and experiences, and here I am proposing the
next steps.
*Next steps*
* Ilya will be looking to onboard one person to work with him on
the code-base. This person will also create the redundancy that
you mentioned in your notes earlier. Ideally, between Ilya and
this person, the response time will be "same-day" except for
non-critical requests. (If you know Scala or you know Java and you
are passionate to get to the Scala world, please contact Ilya, and
cc me.)
* Ilya will give it a try to move the code-base to Tools this
week. This will make sure that the service will have a standard
up-time we can count on. There are three tasks associated with
this effort: T141910, T124902, T141908. You can find them at
https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/2005/. Ilya and I
will review the tasks at the end of this week and re-assess the
time they require.
* Given the time crunch, Ilya and I discussed pursuing a plan B or
an alternative tool that the international team can work on while
Ilya is busy fixing bugs and improving WLX in the coming weeks.
Based on this conversation, I have started reaching out to the
owners of the 5 other jury tools. In the coming days, my attention
will be focused on assessing where these tools are at the moment,
and figuring out if offering one of them as an alternative makes
sense. We also discussed the option of developing another tool.
Basically, all options are on the table with plan b at the moment.
* I will do my best to send updates to wikilovesmonuments public
list about the progress with regards to the jury tool. If you
don't hear from me and you want to hear more, please ask on the
list, and I will get back to you there. :)
*Help needed*
We have a short time before the start of the contest, and I want
us to feel confident that we will have a solid tool for everyone
when we start on Sep. 1. We cannot do this alone though:
* If we are to adapt any of the current tools or create a new
tool, we are under a time crunch. If you can help with usability
testing of the tool we will work on under time constraints, please
let me know off-list.
* We also may need help for further developing one of the current
tools, or creating a new one. If you have time to help with that
under the current time constraints, please email me off-list with
information about the languages you are comfortable with and maybe
a GitHub repository of (a sample of) your past work.
And last but not least, I want to assure you that coming up with a
solution for the jury tool(s) that we can use more smoothly during
this year's WLM contest has a high priority for the international
team. You have our commitments here. :)
Best,
Leila, on behalf of the WLM international team
On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Lily
<[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
Hi Alexander,
Thank you for sharing your experience. We will review your
comments in the WLM international team and will get back to
you by 2016-08-03. In terms of the timelines, there is a
general understanding in the team that we'd like to have a
fully functional jury tool before WLM kicks off on Sep. 1.
Otherwise, we will have many sleepless nights and create many
more of those for others. It's our high priority to avoid that. :)
Best,
Leila, on behalf of WLM international team
On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Alexander Tsirlin
<[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
We had very bad experience with using the WLX jury tool
this year. I described it at length here:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:WLX_Jury_Tool
Several possible solutions are also mentioned on that
page. I would like to hear your opinion about this
situation. Could anyone help Ilya with developing and
maintaining the jury tool, and make sure that it works at
it should work?
If we are planning to meet a very sharp deadline of
October 25 for WLM photos, the jury tool should work
absolutely smoothly, and user support has to be very
prompt. Or it would be good to know already now that we
can't rely on the jury tool, and alternative solutions
should be searched for.
Sincerely,
Alexander
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