+ Yuvi On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 3:31 AM, Alexander Tsirlin <[email protected]> wrote:
> Dear Ilya, Leila, and others, > > Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, I am not programmer, and I > can't help you with the development. I only know that Tools had severe > problems in the past, and it may not be a very reliable solution because, > if something happens to the server, you won't have direct control and won't > be able to solve the problem quickly. I had enough trouble when map scripts > for Wikivoyage were running there. > Yuvi, what kind of guarantee can we have for Tools' availability? > I have spoken to our jury members, and their request is two-fold. First, > the jury tool should be fully operational and stable before the contest and > not 1.5 months after its end. Second, it is highly desirable to start the > grading already in September, because processing 20,000 photos in 25 days > would be difficult. > Our goal is to have a functioning tool before the start of the contest. This being said, I only can commit to a fully functioning jury tool availability by October 1, not before that (again, we will do our best to have the tool ready earlier, I just can't guarantee it at this point). The assumption is that countries do not start the jury process until all photos are in (though I understand that some countries start earlier). > When I am writing about alternatives, I also mean that the grading can be > organized with a very simple system of galleries and grading sheets that > lacks the nice graphical interface, but works reliably and directly on > Commons. And it perfectly fits our needs mentioned above. After our recent > WLE experience I seriously think that such a primitive system will save us > a lot of time and nerves. However, let's wait until the end of August and > see where we are. > Yes, I understand. I can comment more on such a system after I finish this round of researching all the tools available. > From my side, I can test the system in the end of August and write my > comments about its usability. It will also help me to decide whether we use > WLX jury tool for WLM this year. > Perfect. Thank you! :) Leila > > Sincerely, > Alexander > > PS. Thanks for submitting the Phabricator tickets! > > > > On 03.08.2016 11:38, Ilya Korniyko wrote: > > I'll add on > * Creating next round - sorry for latency. This is already implemented. On > July > 16 as Alexander mentioned himself > * Tool unavailability > ** I installed monit service to reload jury tool and mysql when it goes > down. Will have to wait and see if this helps. Before this I tried upstart > and systemd configurations that also have respawn option. Unfortunately > they worked on Ubuntu/Debian/Centos 7, but not on Centos 6 that is on > WMUA's server, so I have to look for other tool and used monit for this. > ** Tool is already deployed on Tool Labs - > <https://tools.wmflabs.org/wlxjury/auth> > https://tools.wmflabs.org/wlxjury/auth > * [T141908 <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T141908>] Restriction that > users have contest assigned to them and cannot be added to another - will > be fixed by end of the week. > * [T141909 <https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T141909>] Complete export > from the jury tool. It is actually available in the form of exporting each > juror rating or selection separately and overall rating for rating rounds. > What is suggested is to have overall number of jurors that selected an > image in the selection round and (Leila's suggestion) one cross table > with images as rows, jurors as columns and rating/selections as cell. This > is a trivial change as everything is already loaded in statistics module, > I'll just to have to output these specific fields. Also will be done by end > of the week. > > Regarding alternate tool. Overall I think it's always good to have > alternative and understand what we have. I know at least two tools which > can to be good - > > - Israel jury tool by User:Ynhockey > <https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Ynhockey> (his own claim) > - Germany jury tool - <http://tools.wmflabs.org/jury/> > http://tools.wmflabs.org/jury/ (Germany has lots of images and usually > select winners fast, so I hope their tool is good) > > Unfortunately I have not seen them, and their sources are not published. > > Regarding developing of some completely new tool. I don't think it is a > serious option. It will be very effort consuming and most certainly will > not provide a better tool than already existing ones. At least for this > years WLM. > > Regards, > Ilya > > On Wed, Aug 3, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Lily <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Hi Alexander and others, :) >> >> *What I did in the past 2+ days* >> I reviewed your comments carefully and talked with a subset of the WLM >> international team including Ilya about the issues you have raised. I >> also reached out to few people outside of the team, to hear their thoughts >> and experiences, and here I am proposing the next steps. >> >> *Next steps* >> * Ilya will be looking to onboard one person to work with him on the >> code-base. This person will also create the redundancy that you mentioned >> in your notes earlier. Ideally, between Ilya and this person, the >> response time will be "same-day" except for non-critical requests. (If you >> know Scala or you know Java and you are passionate to get to the Scala >> world, please contact Ilya, and cc me.) >> >> * Ilya will give it a try to move the code-base to Tools this week. This >> will make sure that the service will have a standard up-time we can count >> on. There are three tasks associated with this effort: T141910, T124902, >> T141908. You can find them at >> https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/project/view/2005/. >> Ilya and I will review the tasks at the end of this week and re-assess >> the time they require. >> >> * Given the time crunch, Ilya and I discussed pursuing a plan B or an >> alternative tool that the international team can work on while Ilya is >> busy fixing bugs and improving WLX in the coming weeks. Based on this >> conversation, I have started reaching out to the owners of the 5 other jury >> tools. In the coming days, my attention will be focused on assessing where >> these tools are at the moment, and figuring out if offering one of them as >> an alternative makes sense. We also discussed the option of developing >> another tool. Basically, all options are on the table with plan b at the >> moment. >> >> * I will do my best to send updates to wikilovesmonuments public list >> about the progress with regards to the jury tool. If you don't hear from me >> and you want to hear more, please ask on the list, and I will get back to >> you there. :) >> >> *Help needed* >> We have a short time before the start of the contest, and I want us to >> feel confident that we will have a solid tool for everyone when we start on >> Sep. 1. We cannot do this alone though: >> * If we are to adapt any of the current tools or create a new tool, we >> are under a time crunch. If you can help with usability testing of the tool >> we will work on under time constraints, please let me know off-list. >> * We also may need help for further developing one of the current tools, >> or creating a new one. If you have time to help with that under the current >> time constraints, please email me off-list with information about the >> languages you are comfortable with and maybe a GitHub repository of (a >> sample of) your past work. >> >> And last but not least, I want to assure you that coming up with a >> solution for the jury tool(s) that we can use more smoothly during this >> year's WLM contest has a high priority for the international team. You have >> our commitments here. :) >> >> Best, >> Leila, on behalf of the WLM international team >> >> On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 7:22 AM, Lily < >> <[email protected]>[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Alexander, >>> >>> Thank you for sharing your experience. We will review your comments in >>> the WLM international team and will get back to you by 2016-08-03. In >>> terms of the timelines, there is a general understanding in the team >>> that we'd like to have a fully functional jury tool before WLM kicks >>> off on Sep. 1. Otherwise, we will have many sleepless nights and create >>> many more of those for others. It's our high priority to avoid that. :) >>> >>> Best, >>> Leila, on behalf of WLM international team >>> >>> On Sun, Jul 31, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Alexander Tsirlin <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> We had very bad experience with using the WLX jury tool this year. I >>>> described it at length here: >>>> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons_talk:WLX_Jury_Tool >>>> >>>> Several possible solutions are also mentioned on that page. I would >>>> like to hear your opinion about this situation. Could anyone help Ilya with >>>> developing and maintaining the jury tool, and make sure that it works at it >>>> should work? >>>> >>>> If we are planning to meet a very sharp deadline of October 25 for WLM >>>> photos, the jury tool should work absolutely smoothly, and user support has >>>> to be very prompt. Or it would be good to know already now that we can't >>>> rely on the jury tool, and alternative solutions should be searched for. >>>> >>>> Sincerely, >>>> Alexander >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >>>> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> User: LilyOfTheWest >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> User: LilyOfTheWest >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments >> http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "WLX Russia organizers" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > To view this discussion on the web visit > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wlx-russia/CAN8OKLZdymV7xTTJj-8X9BaLxticDys7geY1wG0dTgxFS9GYpw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/wlx-russia/CAN8OKLZdymV7xTTJj-8X9BaLxticDys7geY1wG0dTgxFS9GYpw%40mail.gmail.com > . > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Wiki Loves Monuments mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikilovesmonuments > http://www.wikilovesmonuments.org > -- User: LilyOfTheWest
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