Just let me correct one thing :) I did not want to say that complaints about the local situation should not be written (they might be useful for wikitravel or for future conferences by the local team) but I do think we should try to seperate them :)
kr, lodewijk 2008/7/28 Aphaia <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > I agree with Effe iets anders, and will appreciate for comments on > what we Wikimania organizers will be able to improve. > > Not die arme Dachlosen (they are definitely in all past Wikimania > cities, not only in Alex, but in also Frankfurt am Main, etc.), not > annoying greedy Egyptian people (for those purpose you are welcome to > complain Egyptian Tourist policemen you could get anywhere in that > country) etc. I agree those are problems and not made me happy either, > but complaints on foundation-l won't help them to improve. I could > have complained the worst hotel I've ever stayed but I won't, since I > know it is not the right place (but if you have a plan to go to Sharm > el Shake, please drop me a note!) > > Thanks for your pointing out, Majorly, lack of sitting places for > lunch and poor coordinated shuttle bus ideas. Thank you, Brian, for > wi-fi systems. I either wasn't too much happy with some of these. I > personally feel sorry we have no fixed social place in the venue and > felt uncomfortable that soft drink service in the venue was not always > available. We need to clear the details we require for those things I > think, what the social place is, how it is organized, what level of > wi-fi system we require etc. Again thanks for your input and pointing > out details what didn't satisfy you. I am sure convinced the > organizers for WM2009 and bidding teams for WM2010 will take your > comments seriously and try to elaborate their organizing plans. > > But the whole situation outside of the venue is I think beyond our > hands. We as jury for having selecting 2007 venue considered the > general situation of hosting country and city, but it was not too much > weighed. If we stick on the current criteria, it won't affect too much > our selection, I presume. We welcome any suggestions, however, > including the change of weighing, but personally I am not sure if the > general accommodation and people's "westernization" should be our > major criterion to select the venue regarding our mission to spread > the knowledge to every single person on this globe. > > On Tue, Jul 29, 2008 at 3:05 AM, effe iets anders > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Hey, Al, Brian, >> >> thanks for your comments. Some of them might be useful for next year, >> most of them (well, as far as local problems such as taxi drivers are >> concerned) unfortunately less, so that we have to reinvent what the >> local problems will be in Buenos Aires and who knows where wikimania >> will bring us. >> >> I hope that especially everybody would post his/her comments regarding >> things we can fix in the coming years, so that Wikimania can actually >> get improved, I think everybody would be loving that :) . I myself am >> for instance very interested in comments regarding the program, >> regarding the number of lectures vs the number of >> discussions/workshops, regarding the scientific sessions (which I >> unfortunately have not been able to attend myself), the quality of the >> keynote and invited speakers and the number of out-of-community >> speakers. (such as Eric Johnson and the UNU people) What about the >> staff presentations, how was the interaction with the local team, if >> you had a problem, were youhelped as far as reasonably could be >> expected etc. >> >> Please note that there *will* be a shrt survey soon about Wikimania, >> but extensive elaboration on what can be improved would be highly >> welcomed by the Wikimania 2009 organizing team I would guess. >> >> kind regards, >> >> Lodewijk >> >> 2008/7/28 Brian McNeil <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: >>> I have to agree with Majorly here. The efforts of our Egyptian hosts were >>> all undone by their mercenary countrymen who view anyone with a fair skin as >>> a walking wallet that needs to be emptied. The Egyptian tourist board needs >>> to get their shit together and clean up Cairo airport. I should not have to >>> fight off vagabonds with no identification who want to take my luggage off >>> me, nor deal with opportunist taxi drivers who tell me that €10 is a good >>> price to get from one terminal to another. I already knew there was a free >>> shuttle, but no bugger would tell me where it was because there was no >>> profit in that. >>> >>> >>> >>> While at terminal two I met up with a number of German Wikimedians, the fact >>> that they did not even know that the shuttle bus was picking people up at >>> terminal one speaks volumes about the effectiveness of communication >>> regarding this. We fought off taxi drivers who offered to take us to >>> Alexandria for 800 Egyptian pounds and eventually got the shuttle bus to the >>> other airport – terminal one – where we assumed we could relax and wait on >>> the bus to take us to Alexandria. We were not the first Wikimaniacs to get >>> there. >>> >>> >>> >>> There were already about seven or eight conference attendees at terminal >>> one. Some had been there since a little after 8am, and we got there around >>> 3pm. A bus had been supposed to turn up at 2pm, but had not. Fortunately >>> some of those already at the old airport had phone numbers for local >>> Wikimedians, someone turned up to help us out, and at around 4:30pm a bus >>> turned up to take people to Alexandria. The bus had seven seats, there were >>> around 16 of us. GerardM faced down the bus driver and browbeat him into >>> taking those who had been at the airport the longest, regardless of the >>> precious list of names of people he was supposed to take. The rest of us >>> were left with our Egyptian Wikimedian to figure out how to get from Cairo >>> to Alexandria. That involved a – thankfully airconditioned - coach trip. >>> There were two prolonged stops in Cairo while additional passengers were >>> picked up, so what we were told would be a four hour trip took five and a >>> half. However, I suspect everyone was just relieved to actually be in >>> Alexandria; the issue of getting from the bus station to our accommodation – >>> in my case the dorms - was a minor detail. When its midnight and you've been >>> up since 4:30am you tend to be relieved you have somewhere to sleep, >>> although the emails I had been sent about that turned out to be utter >>> fiction. >>> >>> >>> >>> The conference itself was great, and a significant counter to the trials I >>> had actually gone through to get there. We had WiFi in the dorms, but to be >>> perfectly honest that was a bit of a joke – as was access in the library >>> itself. In the library you could pretty much get a WiFi signal anywhere, the >>> problem was that the pool of available IP addresses was not big enough. If >>> you did not get logged on early enough in the morning you could move around >>> all you liked, get a great signal, but simply not get online because there >>> were no more addresses to give out. I had a number of reports passed to me >>> indicating that only about half of the attendees could get online. It >>> probably did not help that many attendees were using one address for their >>> laptop and another for their iPhone. In the dorms we had one mickey-mouse >>> Linksys box for about 40 people in an old building with thick walls. The >>> signal didn't reach the end of the corridor where we were… And Cisco were >>> one of the conference sponsors. >>> >>> >>> >>> The return to Cairo airport was less dramatic, and traumatic. However, as >>> Majorly pointed out, both the limo (i.e cheapest Toyota you can buy with >>> airco) driver and porter were obnoxiously persistent about tips. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Brian McNeil >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Tally >>> Sent: 28 July 2008 16:18 >>> To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) >>> Subject: [Wikimania-l] Comments >>> >>> >>> >>> It's now been a week since I got back. I enjoyed the actual conference, and >>> meeting everyone in person. However, I have made up my mind that I never >>> want to go to Egypt again, nor the next Wikimania. >>> >>> >>> First off, the planning for this conference was pretty poor with regards to >>> information. What I mean is, I had to pester people on IRC to get any kind >>> of information regarding how to get to the shuttle, what to do on arrival >>> etc. The schedule the team was supposed to be following wasn't followed. The >>> scholarships were very late indeed, and when I finally received my "I'm >>> sorry, but..." email, I'd already booked. >>> >>> The fact there was very little info *on the wiki* is atrocious. I had to >>> pester Mido on IRC several times a week, to try and squeeze any information >>> out. It got to about a week before I was due to leave, and still with no >>> answers to basic questions, I sent an email to this list, begging for >>> information. Eventually it was answered, but it was never put on the wiki. I >>> spoke to some people, who don't subscribe to this list, so didn't ever >>> receive this important information. >>> >>> The whole shuttle thing was a disaster. We should not have needed to sign up >>> - just run a "shuttle" every 4 hours as stated. No where did you mention >>> where the shuttle would be on arrival (until I explicitly asked on the list, >>> even then it was wrong). The shuttle for me on return left at 7:30am when my >>> flight was at 5pm. Why was there not a later shuttle? >>> >>> On arrival, I was with Charles Matthews, and we spent several hours waiting >>> at the airport, then we realised we were in the wrong hall. So, after >>> meeting with two other Wikimanians, we waited a further two hours for the >>> shuttle, which was very late. We arrived in Alexandria at 1am-ish. I was put >>> in a room that was a different one to the one I had been told I was in. >>> >>> After a very nutritious breakfast, we went to the first day of the >>> conference bright and early. The schedule changed several times, there was a >>> lack of plugs in the halls, and some of the talks were frankly dull (this >>> applies to all three days). >>> >>> There was not really anywhere suitable to go for lunch, so we sort of sat >>> around on the floor... not good. How did Alexandria get chosen in this >>> respect - the social areas were basically non existent. >>> >>> On returning to the dorms, I found that I had to change rooms, again, still >>> not to the one that I was put into originally. The beds were rather hard, no >>> sheets were provided, and there was no toilet paper in the toilets (luckily >>> I had brought my own as I imagined something as basic as that would be left >>> out). >>> >>> The next two days went similarly I suppose. The end of conference party was >>> done badly again. Why did we have to get a sticker? No one even checked I >>> had one when I got onto the coach. The party was OK, and the food was >>> probably the best I had the entire time I was there. >>> >>> I left the next day, with Brianmc (sharing a cab). We got to Cairo airport, >>> but the wrong terminal for me. I had to make my own way to Terminal 1, after >>> being tricked by someone into paying money I shouldn't have had to to get >>> there. I was then harrassed by a man who claimed to be an "honest policeman" >>> who charged me £300 EGP for the use of his cab. He wouldn't let me leave, >>> even after I spilt water in his car. I tried to walk away, and he grabbed my >>> arm demanding I paid him. I don't think I'd ever felt so awful in my life. >>> It was the most horrible experience of the conference. Why are people like >>> that allowed to roam about the airport, looking for weak, defenceless (and >>> rich) tourists like myself? It's ridiculous. >>> >>> I am still struggling to see how Egypt was chosen to host Wikimania. Yes, >>> the people at the conference were nice and friendly, and the conference was >>> enjoyable enough, with a few minor issues, but the country itself is the >>> worst I have ever been to. You cannot cross the road without risking being >>> killed by the mad drivers (who beep at all hours of the day for no apparent >>> reason). They should save painting lanes on the roads, as no one bothers >>> following them. There was a family living in the street, the same street the >>> BA is situated on. Just goes to show what a mix of life there is. >>> >>> I was so disturbed and put off by my experience of Egpyt, there is no way >>> I'd consider going to Buenos Aires. While I'm sure they are very different >>> places, I don't want to risk anything like the harrassment, the poor hygene, >>> the dangerous roads and the poor organisation again. It'll be way too >>> expensive for me as well, and I doubt I'd get a scholarship. I'd rather go >>> somewhere closer to the UK where I live, or where the culture is more >>> similar to here. >>> >>> I'm sorry my words are harsh. This is not a dig at anyone, just my honest >>> concerns about how this whole thing turned out. I know for sure others feel >>> the same way I do about a lot of the things I said. >>> >>> -- >>> Al Tally >>> (User:Majorly) >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> > > > > -- > KIZU Naoko > http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Britty (in Japanese) > Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD > _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
