Image by FlamingText.com From: [email protected] Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2010 00:00:07 +0300 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Problematic aspects of hosting the next conference in Haifa, Israel I believe this thread has the capacity to keep going from now until the time of the conference. Avoiding politics is difficult, but I think it is a must. Wikimania, was not the reason and will not help resolve the Arab-Israeli conflict. So, maybe it is better not to overload it with what is more than it can bear.Being judgmental regarding the Israeli or Arab or Islamic governments or societies will also not help the conversation, which I can not tell what is the point behind it now anyway?? The conference venue will not change and there is no need to change it. Every destination could be problematic to a portion of the world; for instance, Middle Eastern citizens need guarantees for an EU and UK visa including a steady job and good looking bank account and other details. Haifa has its own complications with regard to the other countries that will not allow persons with Israeli stamps on their passport. Moreover, some people from the Arab or Muslim population do not find it moral or ethical to visit the State of Israel at the current time, which I believe they have the right to adopt their point of view and express it freely whenever there is a need to, they might even ask for a boycott, but not on this list. I don't see this discussion progressing in much constructive thoughts anyway.As for Wikimania and Ramadan (thanks to Phoebe for bringing this up) actually, the presence of the mosque is not as troublesome as the fact of having to fast (no eating or driniking) from sun rise to sunset, and do additional spiritual rituals, while you need to attend sessions, analyze and concentrat for a whole day. For those who realize fasting as myself, the decision to travel to attend a conference in Ramadan will be difficult, but will it be reason enough to consider shifting the conference date? |I proposed changing the date about three months ago due to Ramadhan, but I don't think that's possible:-( Check out my post on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimania_2011#proposed_date_for_wikimania_2011 MoushiraLooking forward to a peaceful closure of this email thread 2010/8/12 Yohai Edery <[email protected]> Hello Maysara and all, I feel like I have to send an e-mail again regarding what you wrote below as there is a lot of miss information in what you wrote. Firstly, let's put things on the table, as an Egyptian you are not feeling good with coming to Israel as it would seem to your friends back home like you are trying to "normalize" relations with Israel. Although there are almost 30 years of peace between our countries, Egypt and Egyptians have been always against normalizing relation with Israel and in fact there is a lot of incitement towards Israel and Jews in general in Egyptian media, books, cultural events and so. Israeli cultural products (movies, music, theater and such) were band from participation in festival in Egypt even international ones held in Egypt. The situation with Jordan is not better…unfortunately. On the meantime, Israel has welcomed movies, music and artists from Egypt and Jordan that have participated in festivals and events in Israel. I can guarantee that people from all over the world will have no problem coming to the event in Israel. Israeli authorities will allow everyone from everywhere to come to Wikimania providing he/she has not been engaged in terrorist activities…which I believe is not the case for the participants of our event….I doubt Al Qaida, Hammas and Hezbollah care about Wikipedia. I can tell you from past experience that people from Libya and Lebanon came to conferences in Israel without any trouble. The problem maybe with their own home government….but that, unfortunately, we can't control. Again, accusation bout maltreatment and confiscation of belongings are NONSENCE I want to remind you that Israel is a full functioning democracy!!! We DO NOT do things against the law and will not confiscate anything from anyone unless there is a solid reason. Again, I have been involved with tens of conferences in Israel and had many friends from all over the world coming to Israel, none of them suffered from any of those things you maintained. I would like to kindly ask you to stop with those accusations. Regarding arriving to Israel from Cairo, again, you don’t have to do that by bus or car only like you said….you can easily fly to Ben gurion international airport in Tel Aviv on a non-stop flight from Cairo with El-Al Israeli airline or Air Sinai (part of Air Egypt). If you need help with making the reservations, I would love to help…. I think that change comes from people and not for the leaders….I would expect you to see this event as a great opportunity to start real dialogue between people in the Mideast and use such an important source of information like Wikipedia to a good use as a tool to bring people together, break stigmas and fight prejudice. The only way we can live together in peace is if we will get to know each other….I have visited Egypt and Jordan as well as the Palestinian territories…I know a lot about the Arab world…what do you know about me? Hopping to show you all the real face of Israel when you are hear... Good night from Haifa, Israel Yohai Edery יוחאי אדרי E-mail: [email protected] P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maysara Omar Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 5:46 AM To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Problematic aspects of hosting the next conference in Haifa, Israel Hello to All :) 1) Of course i am aware that the decision has already been made. I would not have brought this issue had i not thought, (along with many others by the way who are unfortunately not here to express themselves about this) that whatever jury took that decision has fallen into a manifest error, that justifies a look back and reconsideration, rather than be ignored, and regardless of whether this will change things or not. The issue needs to be addressed, because it is very important. It is a fact, that participants from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and possibly other countries, will never have the chance to attend the next wikimania conference should it be held in Israel. Further, other participants from other countries, particularly "Arab" countries whose citizens do not usually go to Israel for any purpose, and this applies to both Jordan and Egypt with whom Israel is in diplomatically fine terms, will find many troubles from both the Israeli and their own governments. This is no speculation, there are hundreds of accounts on the internet of maltreatment and confiscation of belongings of passengers for all sorts of reasons by Israeli officials at entry/exit points. Questions asked in such aggressive tonality and attitude regarding the passengers' views and opinion of Israel and the conflict in the middle east. Please ask the ministry of foreign affairs, whether they will let some attendees in, if they answered these questions as they do believe rather than fake a friendly answer! 2) If even presidential elections can be repeated because their results were doubtful, i cannot see why everyone here so far is talking about the "impossibility" of reconsidering the validity of the decision made by the jury, as though it is a sanctified or infallible one! Somehow it seems that so far no one apart from myself, who could get into Israel only following a car or bus ride of 8 hours from my very home in Cairo, took the time to think of the position of those who will never be permitted into Israel, or who will avoid doing so because Israel is in fact a problematic destination for them. And regardless of whether any of this is fair or not, we currently do have a realistic situation that is laden with injustice and great potential of practical disorder, which somehow was not raised during the decision making process, although it is no secret or news! This suggests that non of those who will be negatively effected by the decision, were present when the process of deciding was ongoing. One of the benefits of this discussion then, is perhaps to give more attention to such matters as representativeness, inclusive deliberation, and outreach, in further such processes of wikimania biding and decision making. Perhaps from now on, we should make more effort in reaching out for, you know, "all the people on Earth" who might want to come to wikimania with their experiences, etc. Unfortunately I was not there then, and maybe i won't be able to be there later, but I do not believe that it is too late to bring this issue now, and to attempt to correct what is wrong even by those who, understandably, love their own country and would have loved to see it hosting such a wonderful event. It is for a clean, freeing, progressive, and Humanistic experience and social process that we commit ourselves; the passing-by moments in this experience will be destructive if they are absorbed only in the passing-by moment! Finally, Wikimania conferences must be accessible to everyone, without having to speak of making "exceptions" and taking extra measures to smoothen the passage of those who participate together everyday in creating and making the new free knowledge and culture of our age and the future. This is the position that I have chosen for myself, rather than the one that you ask me to adopt, that is, to suggest solutions to numberless problems and to an erroneous and unfair condition and situation. And now I ask you, what is YOUR position? :) -- Maysara _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
_______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
