You're free to go on, I was just feeling it was becoming less constructive and rather uncivilized, with all that yelling going on.
Harel On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:21 AM, Maysara Omar <[email protected]> wrote: > Harel and Moushira, > > why the rush on closing this thread?!! :) Let us give time and space for a > civilized and purposeful dialogue and deliberation to come to fruition and > realization! > -- > Maysara > "All that is necessary to right action, is right judgment" _Rene Descartes > > > On Fri, Aug 13, 2010 at 12:12 AM, Maysara Omar <[email protected]> > wrote: >> >> Dear Yohai, >> I thought it was pretty clear that this has nothing to do with me >> personally. But just to emphasize, and not to yell or anything like this: >> THIS DISCUSSION HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ME PERSONALLY! >> Most appreciatively, >> -- >> Maysara >> "All that is necessary to right action, is right judgment." _Rene >> Descartes >> >> >> 2010/8/12 Yohai Edery <[email protected]> >>> >>> Hello Maysara and all, >>> >>> >>> >>> I feel like I have to send an e-mail again regarding what you wrote below >>> as there is a lot of miss information in what you wrote. >>> >>> >>> >>> Firstly, let's put things on the table, as an Egyptian you are not >>> feeling good with coming to Israel as it would seem to your friends back >>> home like you are trying to "normalize" relations with Israel. Although >>> there are almost 30 years of peace between our countries, Egypt and >>> Egyptians have been always against normalizing relation with Israel and in >>> fact there is a lot of incitement towards Israel and Jews in general in >>> Egyptian media, books, cultural events and so. Israeli cultural products >>> (movies, music, theater and such) were band from participation in festival >>> in Egypt even international ones held in Egypt. The situation with Jordan is >>> not better…unfortunately. On the meantime, Israel has welcomed movies, music >>> and artists from Egypt and Jordan that have participated in festivals and >>> events in Israel. >>> >>> >>> >>> I can guarantee that people from all over the world will have no problem >>> coming to the event in Israel. Israeli authorities will allow everyone from >>> everywhere to come to Wikimania providing he/she has not been engaged in >>> terrorist activities…which I believe is not the case for the participants of >>> our event….I doubt Al Qaida, Hammas and Hezbollah care about Wikipedia. I >>> can tell you from past experience that people from Libya and Lebanon came to >>> conferences in Israel without any trouble. The problem maybe with their own >>> home government….but that, unfortunately, we can't control. >>> >>> >>> >>> Again, accusation bout maltreatment and confiscation of belongings are >>> NONSENCE I want to remind you that Israel is a full functioning democracy!!! >>> We DO NOT do things against the law and will not confiscate anything from >>> anyone unless there is a solid reason. Again, I have been involved with tens >>> of conferences in Israel and had many friends from all over the world coming >>> to Israel, none of them suffered from any of those things you maintained. I >>> would like to kindly ask you to stop with those accusations. >>> >>> >>> >>> Regarding arriving to Israel from Cairo, again, you don’t have to do that >>> by bus or car only like you said….you can easily fly to Ben gurion >>> international airport in Tel Aviv on a non-stop flight from Cairo with El-Al >>> Israeli airline or Air Sinai (part of Air Egypt). If you need help with >>> making the reservations, I would love to help…. >>> >>> >>> >>> I think that change comes from people and not for the leaders….I would >>> expect you to see this event as a great opportunity to start real dialogue >>> between people in the Mideast and use such an important source of >>> information like Wikipedia to a good use as a tool to bring people together, >>> break stigmas and fight prejudice. The only way we can live together in >>> peace is if we will get to know each other….I have visited Egypt and Jordan >>> as well as the Palestinian territories…I know a lot about the Arab >>> world…what do you know about me? >>> >>> >>> >>> Hopping to show you all the real face of Israel when you are hear... >>> >>> >>> >>> Good night from Haifa, Israel >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Yohai Edery >>> >>> יוחאי אדרי >>> >>> >>> >>> E-mail: [email protected] >>> P Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to >>> >>> >>> >>> From: [email protected] >>> [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Maysara Omar >>> Sent: Thursday, August 12, 2010 5:46 AM >>> >>> To: Wikimania general list (open subscription) >>> Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Problematic aspects of hosting the next >>> conference in Haifa, Israel >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello to All :) >>> >>> >>> >>> 1) Of course i am aware that the decision has already been made. I would >>> not have brought this issue had i not thought, (along with many others by >>> the way who are unfortunately not here to express themselves about this) >>> that whatever jury took that decision has fallen into a manifest error, that >>> justifies a look back and reconsideration, rather than be ignored, and >>> regardless of whether this will change things or not. The issue needs to be >>> addressed, because it is very important. It is a fact, that participants >>> from Iran, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, and possibly other countries, will >>> never have the chance to attend the next wikimania conference should it be >>> held in Israel. Further, other participants from other countries, >>> particularly "Arab" countries whose citizens do not usually go to Israel for >>> any purpose, and this applies to both Jordan and Egypt with whom Israel is >>> in diplomatically fine terms, will find many troubles from both the Israeli >>> and their own governments. This is no speculation, there are hundreds of >>> accounts on the internet of maltreatment and confiscation of belongings of >>> passengers for all sorts of reasons by Israeli officials at entry/exit >>> points. Questions asked in such aggressive tonality and attitude regarding >>> the passengers' views and opinion of Israel and the conflict in the middle >>> east. Please ask the ministry of foreign affairs, whether they will let some >>> attendees in, if they answered these questions as they do believe rather >>> than fake a friendly answer! >>> >>> >>> >>> 2) If even presidential elections can be repeated because their results >>> were doubtful, i cannot see why everyone here so far is talking about the >>> "impossibility" of reconsidering the validity of the decision made by the >>> jury, as though it is a sanctified or infallible one! Somehow it seems that >>> so far no one apart from myself, who could get into Israel only following a >>> car or bus ride of 8 hours from my very home in Cairo, took the time to >>> think of the position of those who will never be permitted into Israel, or >>> who will avoid doing so because Israel is in fact a problematic destination >>> for them. And regardless of whether any of this is fair or not, we currently >>> do have a realistic situation that is laden with injustice and great >>> potential of practical disorder, which somehow was not raised during the >>> decision making process, although it is no secret or news! This suggests >>> that non of those who will be negatively effected by the decision, were >>> present when the process of deciding was ongoing. One of the benefits of >>> this discussion then, is perhaps to give more attention to such matters as >>> representativeness, inclusive deliberation, and outreach, in further such >>> processes of wikimania biding and decision making. Perhaps from now on, we >>> should make more effort in reaching out for, you know, "all the people on >>> Earth" who might want to come to wikimania with their experiences, etc. >>> Unfortunately I was not there then, and maybe i won't be able to be there >>> later, but I do not believe that it is too late to bring this issue now, and >>> to attempt to correct what is wrong even by those who, understandably, love >>> their own country and would have loved to see it hosting such a wonderful >>> event. It is for a clean, freeing, progressive, and Humanistic experience >>> and social process that we commit ourselves; the passing-by moments in this >>> experience will be destructive if they are absorbed only in the passing-by >>> moment! >>> >>> >>> >>> Finally, Wikimania conferences must be accessible to everyone, without >>> having to speak of making "exceptions" and taking extra measures to smoothen >>> the passage of those who participate together everyday in creating and >>> making the new free knowledge and culture of our age and the future. This is >>> the position that I have chosen for myself, rather than the one that you ask >>> me to adopt, that is, to suggest solutions to numberless problems and to an >>> erroneous and unfair condition and situation. And now I ask you, what is >>> YOUR position? >>> >>> >>> >>> :) >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Maysara >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > > -- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur. _______________________________________________ Wikimania-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
