- Due to global vandalism Никита-Родин-2002
   
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   my account User:ZOKIDIN@global
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   wikipedia. It's not me. Global Vandalism The list below badboy user Nikita.
   For God's sake, help me please.

I good user. Be good, please.

2016-03-16 16:34 GMT+04:00 Risker <[email protected]>:

> Iolanda, I can understand entirely that the group organizing Wikimania
> would need to set up an association in order for it to conduct business.
>
> That does not explain why attendees are forced to join the association.
> Your comparison with the Hilton is very poor:  I do not have to become  a
> member of the Hilton in order to stay at the Hilton and pay them money.
>
> The Wikimedia movement has succeeded without ever becoming a membership
> organization, without requiring registration, without expecting people to
> pay dues (even if that money is put back into the projects right away).
> Requiring people to join is almost the antithesis of what being Wikimedian
> is all about. Requiring membership can be a serious matter for people
> outside of Italy/Europe, particularly as the type and duration of
> membership is not properly described.  Some governments and employers
> require reporting of *all* types of memberships - and those requirements
> tend to be in countries where such membership could put people at risk, or
> subject them to questioning.  I am certain you can find a way to do this
> without requiring that attendees become members.
>
> I have been finding myself very demotivated to come to this Wikimania -
> which is a pity, as I have been enthusiastic about the last four or five
> that I've attended, and even now three months from the event and with
> vacation days booked, I still can't bring myself to register.  The choice
> of location, the inflexible and low quality of accommodations, the
> arbitrary decision to severely limit participation by WMF staff in the
> conference proper (without properly understanding that this is a major cost
> to the movement since so many developers will have to attend the hackathon
> beforehand in order for it to be successful),  the decision to put emphasis
> on posters instead of presentations (despite the fact that well-presented
> posters usually cost between three and twenty times as much as a
> single-person presentation).... this does not seem like a Wikimedia event
> to me at all.  Every time I start to feel even slightly enthusiastic,
> there's another thing that comes up.
>
> I still can't bring myself to register.
>
> Risker/Anne
>
>
>
>
> On 16 March 2016 at 04:43, Iolanda Pensa <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> There are no other solutions.
>>
>> Just to understand the logic behind it:
>> If you go to the hilton you pay the hilton and you receive a receipt from
>> this company. It is your decision if you are ok in paying that company and
>> to use its service.
>> In the case of Esino Lario you join an association, since we are not the
>> hilton, we are not a company and we are managing the event with volunteers
>> and a completely different structure to make a 761 village capable of
>> hosting a quite large event without being structured to do so (we are
>> literally creating most of the things from scratches). The aim of the
>> association is to manage events and specifically Wikimania. Once the event
>> is over the association will have 0 budget (used to cover with the income
>> received from the registrations the expenses related to the
>> members-participants); the association and the membership – as the name of
>> the association clearly communicates - is meant for Wikimania 2016. A
>> committee would have been an easier structure (we initially registered it
>> as a committee) but this December 2015, in Italy committee do not exist any
>> longer as registered institutions (but we want an officially registered
>> institution to make everything clear and correct even if of course - as
>> many of you know - it is complex and longer than doing things informally).
>>
>> It would have been nice to have Wikimedia Italia managing all this, but
>> in 2014 Wikimedia Italia decided that it was too complicated and they did
>> not have enough staff to do it.
>> So in Esino Lario we applied for fundings through Associazione Amici del
>> Museo delle Grigne Onlus (an association of volunteers without staff)
>> and we established this new association to make the management and the
>> accountability of Wikimania possible, transparent and correct (also in this
>> case an association of volunteers without staff).
>>
>> This choice was thought through and please do not hesitate to ask any
>> further question.
>> thanks
>> iolanda
>>
>> Il giorno 15 mar 2016, alle ore 22:29, Lodewijk <
>> [email protected]> ha scritto:
>>
>> If membership is required to be a participant under this structure, such
>> a solution would require all participants to become a member of Wikimedia
>> Italia. Which is maybe less ideal than becoming member of something that is
>> meant to be temporary.
>>
>> Still it is an odd situation to be honest... Iolanda: are there solutions
>> for people who don't want to become a member, or cannot become a member
>> because of their job etc? Perhaps at a higher fee if necessary (not sure if
>> this construction gives tax benefits etc)
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> Lodewijk
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 9:31 PM, Michael Peel <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Couldn't Wikimedia Italia do this?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On 15 Mar 2016, at 11:44, Iolanda Pensa <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>> Here is the explanation of why we created a Committee which is an
>>> association managing Wikimania[1].
>>>
>>> I’ll add the answers also online:
>>> 1. we needed an institution managing the income from the registration
>>> and the expenses which involve a very large number of people (priviate, not
>>> only companies); the institution we established is a non profit (it doesn’t
>>> share the income among anyone), it is managed by volunteers with experience
>>> in accounting and it is a specific institution with a separate bank account
>>> from Associazione Amici del Museo delle Grigne Onlus (which as an onlus is
>>> not the appropriate institution).
>>> 2. we created an association according to the advice of experts in
>>> associations and management. since we have a non profit nature, associating
>>> the participants for the event is the solution which has been chosen as the
>>> only suitable to allow us to collect the payments and to reimburse the
>>> flats and to pay the other expenses linked to food, accommodation,
>>> transport, insurance and t-shirts and welcome begs. the association
>>> (committees in Italy do not exist since December 2015) has the specific
>>> objective to promote and organize the event Wikimania (the name of the
>>> association is Associazione Comitato Wikimania Esino Lario 2016), which is
>>> also the reason we created it.
>>> 3. the fee is 1 euro because we need to have a fee and it is of course
>>> included in all the registration; fees simply contribute as all the rest of
>>> the income to the expenses for the participants.
>>> 4. you can see the names of the members of the board in the link and
>>> also in our team[2]
>>> 5. yesterday the association had a meeting to record all the regulations
>>> which coincide with the information you find on the website (different
>>> types of registration costs and i am uploading also the regulations related
>>> to the support for the most active volunteers)
>>> 6. all documents of the association are uploaded online and you can
>>> review everything. i’ll be adding the other documents and we are preparing
>>> some of the translations.
>>> 7. for personal data we apply the Italian legislation. Data are
>>> collected to allow us to organize Wikimania and support the participants
>>> (registration, accommodation, wifi, police registration for foreigners
>>> requested by law); with this objective in mind, only people who need the
>>> data to organize Wikimania and support the participants have access to them.
>>>
>>> please do not hesitate to let me know if you have any further question
>>> iolanda
>>>
>>> [1]
>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_bids/Esino_Lario/Management#Accounting_and_bookkeeping
>>> [2] https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Team
>>>
>>> Il 13 mar 2016 23:40, "Bohdan Melnychuk" <[email protected]> ha scritto:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> Please take a look at the discussion I initiate here:
>>>> https://wikimania2016.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Registration#Comitato_Wikimania_Esino_Lario_2016
>>>> It is about becoming a member of Comitato Wikimania Esino Lario 2016 as
>>>> asked in Wikimania registration process.
>>>>
>>>> Yours,
>>>>  --Base
>>>>
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