> So in general there's not enough communication between Wikimania > organizers for things like this. Why don't we organize some sort of Brain > Trust with former organizers to give opinions and advice **in a timely > manner** to whoever is the current organizing team? It can be a really easy > setup (maybe nothing more than a small mailing list and/or skype chat) > where the current team can ask "Hey, X: you dealt with this before. How did > you do it?" >
This already exists: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_Committee On Tue, Jul 12, 2016 at 6:06 AM, Harry Mitchell <[email protected]> wrote: > >> I don't agree with you completely, Mike (but you're probably used to that >> by now! ;) ) - if you buy a generic conference package you get a generic >> conference. What's the point of flying all the way to London, for example, >> for a conference on an industrial estate in Hounslow? Sure, you might be >> literally spitting distance from Heathrow and you're not short of options >> for hotels, but it doesn't have that uniqueness that makes Wikimania what >> it is. Likewise, the evening programme and all the ancillary stuff is as >> much part of Wikimania as the talks; in fact I'd argue that the social side >> is far more important and probably much more fertile ground for ideas than >> the talks themselves. >> >> You *do* have a point, though, that we reinvent the wheel every year with >> a new team. I can't remember specifics, but there were several times in the >> buildup to 2014 that I thought "this can't be the first time a Wikimania >> team has had to do this". Not everything will be the same, but we should >> get better at sharing and learning from our experiences so that future >> teams aren't left wondering "how did they do this in London or Mexico or >> Esino?". >> >> Harry Mitchell >> http://enwp.org/User:HJ >> +44 (0) 7507 536 971 >> Skype: harry_j_mitchell >> >> On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 7:06 PM, Michael Peel <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I don't want to take away from the huge amount of work and movement >>> contributions that were made by the Mexico, London, and other Wikimania >>> teams, but: it's worth noting that we could organise a Wikimania with the >>> same number of attendees for a lot less amount of volunteer time (and also >>> money). >>> >>> ~1,000+ people conferences take place quite often each year, across many >>> different academic, non-profic and commercial communities, and there are >>> dedicated conference venues that will just sort out everything - the venue, >>> the internet access, hotel options, the whole lot. They are often located >>> near to international airports, or major cities, which are easy to get to >>> from across the globe. If we wanted to, we could go as far as saying "we're >>> meeting at this venue, delegate fees are X per day, here is the list of >>> nearby hotels that you can stay at, it's up to you to sort out everything >>> else yourself" - and that would lead to a very cheap Wikimania for the WMF >>> and the local Wikimedia organisation. >>> >>> Rather than going for those options, we've preferred to keep things >>> complicated - we chose not to use standard conference packages, instead >>> picking specific locations and approaches for each Wikimania. We travel to >>> out of the way locations. We bolt on different bespoke activities (such as >>> evening events, and outreach activities) to those conferences that increase >>> the complexity of the event. We ask volunteers to take on duties that we >>> could ask attendees to take on instead (photographs/organising sessions, >>> etc.). We vary the structure of each conference to include the preferences >>> of each organising committee. We organise a scholarship process. >>> >>> If we're going to do a rational cost-benefit analysis of Wikimania, >>> including all of the options about regularity, intentions, etc., then >>> perhaps we should also consider the basics - what's the minimum amount >>> that's needed to hold such an event, leaving aside the optional extras? >>> What can we keep constant between each Wikimania: can we keep the program >>> organisation, the approach to evening events, and the add-on events the >>> same each year (saving volunteer and staff time)? Or perhaps we should >>> acknowledge the extra work that goes into each bespoke Wikimania, and >>> celebrate that? Or seek an intermediate solution - sort out the venue, >>> program, etc., and leave hotel/food options up to attendees? Or perhaps >>> each Wikimania should keep vying for the title of the best Wikimania ever? >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Mike >>> >>> On 10 Jul 2016, at 23:42, Ivan Martínez <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> It's a lot of work, last week before Wikimania Mexico the coordination >>> team slept less than 4 hours each day. But for me being honest was not a >>> shaming time, was great. And we can have people intended to keep Wikimania >>> annual and run similar challenges. >>> >>> Harry, we had here 72 committed volunteers working without paid and we >>> are not a major developed economy. >>> >>> Darius, I think that "motivations criris afterward" must also be >>> considered in the planning and prior call for Wikimanía volunteers and can >>> be avoided. In Mexico we always tell to people that we did not want them >>> just for giving the best of themselves for three days around, but we wanted >>> to keep them with Wikimedia mission. A month ago we broke a Guinness record >>> and 60% of attendees were Wikimania volunteers. It is a matter of long >>> preplanning, I think. >>> >>> 2016-07-10 15:03 GMT-05:00 Harry Mitchell <[email protected]>: >>> >>>> Yes, London was big, and the two Wikimaniae since have been on a >>>> smaller scale, but I'm not sure a ~1,000-person conference is significantly >>>> less of a headache than a ~2,000-person conference, and actually I'd wager >>>> that Esino was more logistically complicated due to the location - for >>>> example having to arrange buses to Varenna and the airports (which were >>>> around 50 miles away). Not that that should be taken as a criticism of the >>>> Esino team - they did a fantastic job in a beautiful location and I'd love >>>> to have another 'scenic Wikimania'. >>>> >>>> I'll let Ed tell you about what he did. I know I saw him spend a lot of >>>> time dealing with the venue and the programme and discussing finance and >>>> logistics, but I'm sure there are lots of other things. Speaking for >>>> myself: those volunteers in red shirts? That was my contribution. The >>>> volunteers on the helpdesks, running sessions, meeting and greeting, >>>> tweeting, photographing, doing odd jobs and generally making things run >>>> smoothly ... I recruited most of them*, got to know them, trained them, >>>> split them into teams, did a lot of the scheduling (easier said than done - >>>> lots of moving parts!). During the conference, they looked after the >>>> attendees, and I looked after them. And I've never worked with such an >>>> amazing group of people. It was a truly humbling experience, but it was a >>>> lot of work. At one point I was receiving something like 200 emails a day >>>> just relating to Wikimania and was having to set aside time at the start >>>> and end of the day to answer the ones that didn't require an immediate >>>> response. I also devised the scheme of reporting and emergency/contingency >>>> planning for volunteers (thankfully this wasn't necessary, but the death of >>>> a Wikimedian at that year's Wikimedia Conference was painfully fresh in our >>>> memories), and spent a lot of time trying to drum up and channel interest >>>> within the UK Wikimedian community. I'm sure there were other things, but >>>> those roles alone took up a significant amount of time - certainly in >>>> excess of 40 hours a week in the final few weeks before the conference. >>>> >>>> *(Not wishing to take credit from anyone else; I worked closely with >>>> lots of other people on all these things, particularly Hera Hussain, and >>>> Fabian Tompsett and Chris McKenna who were at the time employed by >>>> Wikimedia UK.) >>>> >>>> >>>> Harry Mitchell >>>> http://enwp.org/User:HJ >>>> +44 (0) 7507 536 971 >>>> Skype: harry_j_mitchell >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 7:40 PM, Lodewijk <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Thanks Harry, Ed, >>>>> >>>>> Of course London was a bit of an exceptionally big Wikimania - but did >>>>> you evaluate your effort somewhere, and note what you spent your time on >>>>> somewhere? Just to get an impression which components take most effort (as >>>>> Dariusz suggested)? >>>>> >>>>> Best, >>>>> Lodewijk >>>>> >>>>> 2016-07-10 20:25 GMT+02:00 Harry Mitchell <[email protected]>: >>>>> >>>>>> I agree with Ed here. Organising a conference of this size is a huge >>>>>> undertaking to ask of volunteers. I wouldn't want to see Wikimania go >>>>>> down >>>>>> the road of being organised by a team of professional conference >>>>>> organisers >>>>>> because then it would lose the organic community feel that makes it so >>>>>> special, but we shouldn't rule out stipends for the local team. Otherwise >>>>>> we end up with the slightly odd situation of the WMF or local chapter >>>>>> bringing in paid staff to fill gaps left by volunteers but the volunteers >>>>>> still effectively working full-time unpaid. I had a much smaller role in >>>>>> 2014 than Ed and others and was fortunate to be in a position to >>>>>> dedicate a >>>>>> lot of time to it; I certainly wouldn't be in a position now to devote as >>>>>> much time as I did for free and without wishing to speak for Ed, I doubt >>>>>> he >>>>>> would be either even if he was willing. >>>>>> >>>>>> If that's a problem in major developed economies, I'd imagine it >>>>>> would be even more of a problem in places where people have less >>>>>> disposable >>>>>> income. >>>>>> >>>>>> Harry Mitchell >>>>>> http://enwp.org/User:HJ >>>>>> +44 (0) 7507 536 971 >>>>>> Skype: harry_j_mitchell >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, Jul 10, 2016 at 4:22 PM, Edward Saperia <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks for that comment, Dariusz; >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Wikimania London took over two years of preparation, and occupied me >>>>>>> full time for six months in the run up to the event. It's a massive >>>>>>> undertaking, and in retrospect it seems deeply unfair to expect >>>>>>> volunteers >>>>>>> to do this. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> There was a bidding process, so there was heavy pressure to >>>>>>> minimise/understate the budget - which mostly comes at the cost of the >>>>>>> volunteers. I think the community just has to be more realistic about >>>>>>> what >>>>>>> it costs to put on a 1000+ person event. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Were I to do it again I would absolutely include subsistence for the >>>>>>> organising team in the budget. It needs professional commitment and >>>>>>> professional skills, even with WMF staff support. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I do think that the movement deserves an annual event, and >>>>>>> particularly that the WMF should capitalise on it more from a comms >>>>>>> perspective. Wiki*edia is a significant entity and we should be >>>>>>> presenting >>>>>>> ourselves as such. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *Edward Saperia* >>>>>>> Conference Director Wikimania London >>>>>>> <http://www.wikimanialondon.org/> >>>>>>> email <[email protected]> • facebook >>>>>>> <http://www.facebook.com/edsaperia> • twitter >>>>>>> <http://www.twitter.com/edsaperia> • 07796955572 >>>>>>> 133-135 Bethnal Green Road, E2 7DG >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In the same time, I've seen the following problems over the years, >>>>>>>> not directly linked to the financial cost (which in the face of our >>>>>>>> relative financial stability can be justified by the benefits, >>>>>>>> depending on >>>>>>>> how we define them): >>>>>>>> - huge WMF staff involvement (most Wikimanias run smoothly also >>>>>>>> thanks to countless hours put in by the staff), >>>>>>>> - huge volunteer local organizers involvement (in fact, my >>>>>>>> observation is that many chapters organizing WIkimanias suffer from a >>>>>>>> motivation crisis afterward). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> While we can get the money (at least for now), the human >>>>>>>> involvement cost is something I would not dare to dismiss just by >>>>>>>> emphasizing the benefits of Wikimania for the movement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Instead of discussing whether we should have a Wikimania every year >>>>>>>> or not, perhaps we should try to list and discuss the reasons why it is >>>>>>>> such a big strain? If it is clear that we can't afford it every year >>>>>>>> (because of the human cost, probably more importantly than the >>>>>>>> finances), >>>>>>>> the decision to break with the annual format will be a natural >>>>>>>> consequence >>>>>>>> of such an analysis. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [...] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dariusz Jemielniak ("pundit", a current Trustee). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> *Iván Martínez* >>> >>> *Presidente - Wikimedia México A.C.User:ProtoplasmaKid * >>> >>> // Mis comunicaciones respecto a Wikipedia/Wikimedia pueden tener una >>> moratoria en su atención debido a que es un voluntariado. >>> // Ayuda a proteger a Wikipedia, dona ahora: >>> https://donate.wikimedia.org >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimania-l mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimania-l mailing list >> [email protected] >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l >> >> > > > -- > "Imagina un mundo en donde cada persona del planeta pueda tener acceso > libre a la suma total de todo el conocimiento humano. Eso es lo que estamos > haciendo."—Jimmy Wales <https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Wales>. > > Socio de Wikimedia México > <https://mx.wikimedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A1gina_principal>. > > > > [image: Andrés C y C on about.me] > > Andrés Cruz y Corro > about.me/andycyca > <http://about.me/andycyca> > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimania-l mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l > >
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