Short answer: sounds good. Will reply more extensively by the end of Saturday.
Pine On Dec 10, 2014 11:31 AM, "Jason Moore" <[email protected]> wrote: > Some feedback from Top Level Design: > > When ready, and with 30 days notice (for procedural purposes), CWUG should > request the domain from TLD. TLD will transfer the domain, allowing CWUG to > host as the group wishes. TLD can also provide hosting at no cost for one > year. At any time after one year, TLD can request that the domain be > transferred such that CWUG can take over both the domain and hosting. TLD > is likely to continue hosting for a very long time, but the company should > (understandably) have the right to no longer provide free hosting if it > wishes (i.e., the arrangement is somehow problematic). > > I think this is very reasonable for both parties. It gives control of the > domain to CWUG, allows free hosting for CWUG for a minimum of a year and > possibly much longer, and allows CWUG to focus its efforts elsewhere. Even > *IF* TLD decided to stop offering free hosting after a year (which I > don't expect it will), all this would mean is that WCUG would need to > subscribe to a hosting service with another company. Really, this is > something that any group should expect to budget for anyway. But again, TLD > would like to offer hosting for longer, but should have the right to back > out if it wishes. Please don't interpret this as bait and switch or a free > trial of sorts... > > I've been a part of the Wikimedia movement for 7 years and my boss has > also been a long-time supporter of wiki communities. I assure you we are > acting in good faith and just want to help, but I also recognize that both > parties should be able to back out of the agreement if need be. The year > clause seems appropriate for both parties, IMO. > > TLD would not place advertising on Cascadia.wiki, but it would be nice if > the company were somehow recognized for its support, whether it be a link > on the sidebar or another form of corporate recognition. (Again, this is > something we should expect any contributing company to request.) For an > example of a sidebar link, I share ICANNWiki and invite you to look at the > bottom of the sidebar. Again, this is NOT required, or the wording can be > changed, or whatever. Just sharing an example of what has worked elsewhere. > > Two more things: > 1) TLD wants to know if CWUG is a legal entity and who the company would > be making this agreement with specifically... in other words, who would the > domain actually be transferred to? > 2) Rather than drafting an extensive contract under a specific license, > can I (on behalf of TLD) just outline the company's offer at Meta, which is > public-facing and makes the company accountable for its actions? This to me > seems better than spending a lot of time going back and forth drafting a > contract. I don't think it needs to be so complicated. > > Thanks, and please feel free to voice your questions or concerns. > > Jason > > > On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 11:21 PM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Sounds good. >> >> I think I would advocate for more content than only a redirect. I think >> there should be a placeholder with contact info, and a link to meta. We can >> keep it simple and maintainable for now, with links to discussions on Meta. >> Perhaps we could eventually have the externally-oriented information like >> email signups, blogs and social media info on cascadia.wiki, while having >> relatively internal discussion on Meta? Jason, you're our social media >> person anyway, and if you want to maintain social media and communications >> info on cascadia.wiki, I think that might work well. >> >> Thanks a lot for working on this. >> >> Pine >> On Dec 9, 2014 10:24 PM, "Jason Moore" <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for your feedback, Lane and Peaceray. >>> >>> I do recognize Lane's concerns with moving outside of Meta and >>> Wikipedia. Building a community at Cascadia.wiki and having to maintain the >>> site will have its challenges. However, like Peacray mentioned, asking >>> someone to visit Meta-Wiki and find the Cascadia Wikimedians page, or even >>> asking someone to go to Wikipedia to find a theoretical project page for >>> Cascadia Wikimedians has its own challenges. >>> >>> If we are to be seen as a group organizing "real life" activities and >>> event, I think we need to have a website with the standard info we find >>> online about other organizations: "about us", goals, bios for board members >>> and volunteers/staff, calendar of upcoming events, grant requests and >>> reports, contact info, etc.) Even if we organized our activities mostly >>> using Meta-Wiki or English Wikipedia, I can still see benefits to having an >>> external wiki... Possibly as an information/reporting repository moreso >>> than a hub for organizing projects. Really, we would just have to see what >>> happens organically. >>> >>> Having our own website will also mean we have the opportunity to brand >>> ourselves a bit, to have a hub for social media links, signing up for an >>> email mailing list, etc. Essentially, having an online presence and >>> appearing more professional, like Lane mentioned. >>> >>> As for a redirect, I can speak with my colleagues, but I think it should >>> not come as a surprise that a company donating a domain and hosting >>> services might expect the domain to be used (I am speaking personally and >>> independently of my employer). I'll try to start work on an agreement b/w >>> TLD and WCUG, while also recognizing that this is an ongoing conversation >>> re: both .wiki and even the use of an external website for the group. >>> >>> Jason >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 8:41 PM, Raymond Leonard < >>> [email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi everybody, >>>> >>>> I really like the idea of Cascadia.wiki. I agree with some of the >>>> sentiments about having it initially be a redirect to a Wikimedia project >>>> page even if we decide to eventually be separate from the WMF web >>>> properties. I think that the ability to tell people to go to Cascadia.wiki >>>> will be much simpler and so much more direct than having people go to >>>> meta.wikimedia.org then search for Cascadia Wikimedians or Wikimedia >>>> Cascadia. The casual user is probably unaware of meta.wikimedia.org; >>>> Cascadia.wiki is just easy to remember. >>>> >>>> I trust both Another Believer's / Jason's company & the company that >>>> hosts SeaFOSS on your (plural) recommendations. Thus, it seems to be >>>> basically a matter of logistics. I just think that we need to hash it out >>>> via a face-to-face whether that is in the same room or via Skype or Google >>>> Hangouts. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Peaceray >>>> >>>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 6:59 PM, Lane Rasberry <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> I support the use of a .wiki endorsement. I would support affiliation >>>>> with Top Level Design, Jason's company, because I feel that anyone using >>>>> wikis in any context is a benefit to the entire Wikimedia project, and >>>>> because I feel like the favoritism given to the registrar for this domain >>>>> is not significantly different as compared to favoritism given to someone >>>>> doing a .com or .org registration. Also I feel that an affiliation with >>>>> that company is an ideal partnership, because their very existence is >>>>> premised on the past and future success of Wikimedia projects and the >>>>> strength of any community groups in the region. >>>>> >>>>> Having a website off the Wikimedia projects might look professional >>>>> but without multiple people to manage it then I am not convinced this is a >>>>> priority. There is no Wikimedia group which has built community around >>>>> their off-wiki website in the English language, and I doubt there is one >>>>> at >>>>> all. Off-wiki websites can be present past achieves to impress people who >>>>> do project review, perhaps as part of a grant evaluation. Going off wiki >>>>> typically means going off watchlists and out of touch with the Wikimedia >>>>> community. In my opinion, staying in Wikimedia projects, perhaps with a >>>>> .wiki redirect to a project page, is the most natural choice until there >>>>> is >>>>> a volunteer labor surplus and the organization navigates past its first >>>>> cycle of grant requesting and reporting. Setting up a website achieves no >>>>> stated early goal that I recognize. Content on Wikipedia could always be >>>>> migrated to another website at a later time. >>>>> >>>>> yours, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 7:02 PM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hi, as of right now the board hasn't delegated any of its authority, >>>>>> which is an issue that will be addressed when we have bylaws so that a >>>>>> board vote isn't necessary for every decision. We may also pass some >>>>>> resolutions for temporary delegation of responsibility until the bylaws >>>>>> are >>>>>> finalized. For now, though, we'll need a board vote to approve obtaining >>>>>> property. Our Meta talk page would be a good place to do this for matters >>>>>> that aren't confidential. Jason, I suggest that you ask the relevant >>>>>> person >>>>>> in your org to draft a contract that specifies that Cascadia Wikimedians >>>>>> User Group will be donated ownership of the cascadia.wiki domain, and >>>>>> specifies how hosting arrangements and costs will be arranged (no cost is >>>>>> great), and the procedure for transferring hosting of the domain if we >>>>>> decide to host elsewhere. After we get a copyof the proposal, our board >>>>>> can >>>>>> review it, and discuss and vote on our Meta talk page. It would be nice >>>>>> if >>>>>> the agreement is produced under a Commons-compatible license so it can be >>>>>> reviewed by the public on Commons and potentially reused by others. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks! >>>>>> >>>>>> Pine >>>>>> On Dec 8, 2014 5:03 PM, "Jason Moore" <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> And transferring ownership of the domain may be fine with the >>>>>>> company, too. I'm not sure if/how domain registrations differ between >>>>>>> individuals and organizations (not my area of expertise), but again I am >>>>>>> happy to continue liaising between CWUG and the company and answer any >>>>>>> specific questions re: registration and hosting. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've not heard any resistance to the domain cascadia.wiki for our >>>>>>> group, so shall we continue moving forward with this plan or do we need >>>>>>> to >>>>>>> raise the question with other board members or at meta? >>>>>>> Jason >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Dec 8, 2014 at 3:35 PM, Benj. Mako Hill <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <quote who="Jason Moore" date="Mon, Dec 08, 2014 at 03:14:00PM >>>>>>>> -0800"> >>>>>>>> > Cascadia.wiki is currently being reserved and could be made >>>>>>>> available at my >>>>>>>> > request despite being considered a "premium" name. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Got it. :) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> > That being said, if the group is more comfortable with tasking >>>>>>>> > someone to accept transfer of the domain and maintain >>>>>>>> > hosting/renewals under his/her own name, we can help with those >>>>>>>> > arrangements, too. I am not sure what additional detail is needed, >>>>>>>> > but if you have specific questions or concerns, I'd be happy to >>>>>>>> > respond. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think that our long term plan should to have the domain ownership >>>>>>>> transfered to our organization. I don't mind if the technical >>>>>>>> contact, >>>>>>>> registration fees, and hosting is donated (in fact, that sounds >>>>>>>> wonderful!) but I think it is wise that our organization and its >>>>>>>> board >>>>>>>> have ownership and ultimate over the domain that people use to find >>>>>>>> us. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you so much for offering to organize this! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Mako >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Benjamin Mako Hill >>>>>>>> http://mako.cc/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Creativity can be a social contribution, but only in so far >>>>>>>> as society is free to use the results. --GNU Manifesto >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Lane Rasberry >>>>> user:bluerasberry on Wikipedia >>>>> 206.801.0814 >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia >>>> >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia >>> >>> >
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