Greg,

Thank you for the update. One of the quirks with the list.wikimedia.org is
I did not receive your email until today.

Thanks,
Peaceray

On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 9:01 AM, Gregory Varnum <[email protected]>
wrote:

> Peaceray,
>
> I am not sure if you saw my response to Pine, but some additional info.
>
> We are aware of the contents of the board's letter. The table accurately
> reflects the criteria that AffCom reviews before considering a potential
> chapter, and the board is aware of that. As such, it will not be changed at
> this time. It is a clarification based on AffCom's conversations with the
> BoT and is accurate. It is very common for these types of refinements to be
> made. Wikimedia Belgium is an example of why this clarification was made.
> Since the WUG model was not available when Belgium began, it did not make
> sense to ask them to become a WUG first. However, in almost all other
> cases, doing those two years of activities as a WUG is preferred and
> recommended - and that is communicated to applicants - as it was with
> Cascadia. If the group feels they meet the two year requirement and wish to
> apply, we will not stop you. However, activities done prior to WUG
> recognition are often - but not always - not at chapter-recognition level
> quality. Sometimes those done after recognition are not quality enough
> either.
>
> The requirement is written as such because we are more interested in two
> years of quality programming than we are two years as a WUG - it just
> happens to be that for most groups that will be done while they are a WUG.
> That is why I am not sure that I agree with your assessment that they are
> very different, in our assessment, in practical execution, they often are
> linked. However, we reserve the right to provide the board with any unique
> exceptions - as we did with Belgium. As Carlos has pointed out, the AffCom
> recommends chapters for recognition to the BoT - we are not the final
> recognition entity as is the case with WUGs. It does not appear to me that
> Cascadia is one of those exceptions, but you are certainly welcome to
> present otherwise and the committee will consider it. Do keep in mind that
> activities done by people who eventually formed the group are different
> from activities done by the group itself.
>
> All affiliate documentation is in the process of being redone. Once the
> WUG documentation is completed, we will be updating Chapter and ThOrg
> documentation. This will be made clearer in those updates. I do apologize
> that these updates are not yet done, and we certainly agree it needs to be,
> but as a volunteer group we have to triage our efforts. There are dozens
> are groups considering becoming a WUG, and only a few actively looking at
> becoming a chapter, so the WUG documentation and process has our focus
> right now. Until those updates are done, you are welcome to ask for
> clarification as you have done, but the recently updated documentation
> accurately reflects what this committee reviews in applications.
>
> -greg aka varnent
> Vice-Chair, Wikimedia Affiliations Committee
>
> On Wed, Mar 4, 2015 at 1:21 PM, Raymond Leonard <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Carlos,
>>
>> My apologies for not responding right away, but for some reason I did not
>> receive this in my mailbox until this morning.
>>
>> You are not responding to the point we raised. Please see my emails of
>> 2/19 & 2/20.
>>
>> The point is that there is a difference between what AffCom Wiki
>> communicates to affiliates & potential affiliates & what is reality.
>>
>> Yes, at its retreat on November 22 - 23, 2013, the BoT instituted a
>> requirement that "All organizations wishing to be recognized as a
>> chapter or thematic organization must first be recognized as a (not
>> necessarily incorporated) Wikimedia user group for at least two years.
>> <http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/2013-11-24#Movement_roles>"
>> This was first published three months later, here
>> <http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Minutes/2013-11-24&oldid=95803>
>> .
>>
>> Yet a year after that, I could not find anything under the Affiliations
>> Committee portal <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Affiliations_Committee>
>> that reflected this requirement. Are you implying that potential affiliates
>> need to go to BoT minutes to find their requirements rather than to
>> AffCom's documentation? I think not, but AffCom failure to document the BoT
>> requirement for at least a year is a problem.
>>
>> Even today, the Wikimedia user groups/Requirement
>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_user_groups/Requirements&oldid=10838200>
>> lists a requirement of "Two years of activities prior to applying" for
>> Chapters & Thematic organisations. As I stated in my 2/20 email, two
>> years of activities is a _very_ different thing than being recognized as a
>> Wikimedia user group for two years. The Portland, OR & Seattle, WA meetups,
>> components of CWUG, have been organizing activities for over three years,
>> as opposed to when AffCom resolved to recognize Cascadia Wikimedians as a
>> Wikimedia User Group last September.
>>
>> Inadequate & outdated documentation will only lead to disappointment &
>> frustration for affiliates & potential affiliates who feel that they are be
>> tripped up by esoteric rules & deadlines known only to AffCom.
>>
>> CWUG wants to show our due diligence by adhering to both requirements &
>> timelines, but we need to know what is required of us, when it is required,
>> & when we can expect responses. We ask for your help in this matter by
>> clearly documenting requirements, timelines, & deadlines. The failure to
>> clearly document the length of time required for a user group to become a
>> chapter or a thematic organization is not the only issue. Please review the
>> emails from both Pine & myself earlier in this thread. As Chair of the
>> Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee, surely you can initiate some
>> change in this regard.
>>
>> Yours,
>> Peaceray
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 1:39 AM, Carlos M. Colina <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  Hello Pine,
>>>
>>> I think it is easy to understand that, even in the event that the AffCom
>>> recommends to the WMF Board the recognition of a certain group to become a
>>> chapter, the WMF Board has made it clear that it will not accept a group
>>> that has been recognized as a Wikimedia User Group for at least two years.
>>> I honestly do not see why it is so hard to understand that the AffCom
>>> guidelines have not changed and that simply, the WMF Board is the entity
>>> who has the final word on chapterhood status.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>> Carlos
>>>
>>> El 01/03/2015 a las 09:07 a.m., Pine W escribió:
>>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> I am hoping that we hear back from Affcom about Peaceray's point.
>>>
>>> I am planning to take Luis up on his suggestion to have a discussion on
>>> Meta, in which I will discuss the various delays and
>>> communications/documentaion issues that seem to plague our attempts to make
>>> ourselves impactful and get the approvals to enable us to make progress.
>>>
>>> My work on the budget this week has been delayed by the need to spend
>>> many hours dealing with car issues, plus my working a little overtime at
>>> paid work. Hopefully I will have a chance to work on the budget next week.
>>>
>>> Pine
>>> On Feb 20, 2015 10:22 AM, "Raymond Leonard" <
>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  Kirill & all,
>>>>
>>>> This proves my point. The WMF Board stated that it seeks an approval
>>>> requirement that “All organizations wishing to be recognized as a chapter
>>>> or thematic organization must first be recognized as … a (not necessarily
>>>> incorporated) Wikimedia user group for at least two years” was made at a
>>>> retreat that occurred November 22 - 23, 2013. Yet fifteen months later,
>>>> where is this codified in the Requirements, Guidelines, & Creation guides
>>>> for Chapters, Thematic organisations, or User groups? The nearest that
>>>> I can find is at Wikimedia usergroups/Requirements
>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_user_groups/Requirements&oldid=10838200>,
>>>> where it states “Two years of activities prior to applying” as a
>>>> requirement for Chapters & Thematic organisations. Two years of
>>>> activities is a _very_ different thing than being recognized as a Wikimedia
>>>> user group for two years. The discrepancy makes it feel like the goal posts
>>>> are being moved on us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  The Affiliations Committee should rightfully expect transparency &
>>>> promptness from its present and future affiliates. We are asking that the
>>>> Affiliations Committee treat us with the same transparency & promptness.
>>>>
>>>>  Yours,
>>>>  Peaceray
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 1:53 AM, Kirill Lokshin <
>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  Hi Peaceray,
>>>>>
>>>>>  I just wanted to clarify one point regarding chapters and user
>>>>> groups.  CWUG wasn't classified as a user group instead of as a chapter
>>>>> because it was more expedient, or because the Affiliations Committee is
>>>>> skittish about new chapters; rather, the mandatory classification of all
>>>>> new groups as user groups -- and a two-year period of activity *as a user
>>>>> group* before being able to apply for recognition as a chapter -- are
>>>>> requirements that have been set by the WMF Board of Trustees [1].
>>>>>
>>>>>  Cheers,
>>>>>  Kirill
>>>>>
>>>>>  [1]
>>>>> http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Minutes/2013-11-24#Movement_roles
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 2:38 AM, Raymond Leonard <
>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>    Pine & all,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  I am agreed that this has been rough & frustrating process,
>>>>>> especially considering that our goal is to become a chapter & that  we 
>>>>>> got
>>>>>> the word that initially becoming a user group should be more expedient.
>>>>>> Consider that beyond membership goals, there are an additional six
>>>>>> requirements (listed first) in common for user groups, chapters, & 
>>>>>> thematic
>>>>>> organizations, & an additional six for chapters & thematic organizations.
>>>>>> Here is how CWUG stack up on those requirements:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    - *Focus:* Geographic
>>>>>>    - *Mission aligned with Wikimedia Foundation:* Yes
>>>>>>    - *Compliance with naming guidelines and trademark policy:* Yes
>>>>>>    (signed agreement); consulted with legal team when designing CWUG logo
>>>>>>    - *Information about group published on a Wikimedia wiki:* Yes
>>>>>>    - *Plans for activities or efforts to advance Wikimedia projects:*
>>>>>>    Yes
>>>>>>    - *Allows new members:* Yes
>>>>>>    - *Two designated contacts for Wikimedia Foundation:* Yes
>>>>>>    - *Legally incorporated:* In progress
>>>>>>    - *Amendable bylaws approved by Affiliations Committee:* CWUG has
>>>>>>    bylaws
>>>>>>    - *Two years of activities prior to applying:* Starting October
>>>>>>    2011, mostly monthly activities (36 meetups or events) in Seattle; 
>>>>>> Since
>>>>>>    January 2012, Portland has had 30 meetups or events
>>>>>>    - *Requires approval by Wikimedia Foundation Board: *WMF
>>>>>>    responsibility
>>>>>>     - *Governing board elected by members, including new members:*
>>>>>>    Board formed, election at end of first year (11/2015, if I am correct)
>>>>>>    - *Activity and financial reports posted regularly on Meta-Wiki:*
>>>>>>    Mission statement, goals, plans, & budget posted, reports coming at
>>>>>>    appropriate intervals
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I do think that CWUG has done its due diligence thus far, given that
>>>>>> we have gone beyond the requirements of a user group & that we just
>>>>>> recently got the go ahead.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Alex,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I know that WMF has had some misgivings with the how chapters are
>>>>>> working. I can see at
>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reports&oldid=11312318
>>>>>> that 31% of the chapters & thematic reports are overdue on their reports.
>>>>>> (Bluerasberry & Pharos, if you are reading this, please light a fire 
>>>>>> under
>>>>>> Wikimedia New York City, because their report was due at the end of
>>>>>> October.) I know that some are years behind or just plain defunct. There
>>>>>> have been reports of one chapter in turmoil, having completely voted out
>>>>>> its board. I can understand why the Affiliations Committee is skittish
>>>>>> about new chapters & is encouraging groups to initially start as a user
>>>>>> group.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  However, even though "Wikimedia user groups are intended to be
>>>>>> simple and flexible affiliates", it is feeling a bit broken & anything 
>>>>>> but
>>>>>> simple. I know that Pine has submitted applications & documentation in a
>>>>>> timely manner, but the projected time for approval that was supposed to 
>>>>>> be
>>>>>> 2 to 4 weeks then stretched into months. The suddenness of the 
>>>>>> grantmaking
>>>>>> deadline was, well, unexpected. Had we gotten a more timely approval to
>>>>>> become a user group, we would have had more time to consult or have a
>>>>>> back-and-forth about the budget instead of feeling like we had to rush
>>>>>> headlong into it. And for a group that yearns to become a chapter, 
>>>>>> consider
>>>>>> how discouraging it is that the Step-by-step chapter creation guide
>>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Step-by-step_chapter_creation_guide&oldid=8213725>
>>>>>> begins with "This page is outdated ..."
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  So please forgive us that even with you approach us with a
>>>>>> legitimate concern that we need to grow our membership at first, it feels
>>>>>> to us like another roadblock. Frankly, we just want to get to the point
>>>>>> where we can just start moving ahead as a user group with events,
>>>>>> partnerships, member recruiting, and reporting so we can further 
>>>>>> Wikipedia
>>>>>> & the other Wikimedia projects. This is the fifth board that II have 
>>>>>> served
>>>>>> on, & I know that while accounting & documentation are important, the 
>>>>>> thing
>>>>>> that really perpetuates an organization is serving its purpose & its
>>>>>> members. Please help us to expedite this process so we can turn our
>>>>>> attention to that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  Yours,
>>>>>>  Peaceray
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   Hi Peaceray,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  I think that expanded membership and volunteer capacity is part of
>>>>>>> the picture, yes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  One thing I think we should consider discussing with WMF at a
>>>>>>> fairly high level are the systematic problems we have been encountering
>>>>>>> with our group's formation and funding. We have had issues with Affcom
>>>>>>> delays, WMF Legal delays, Grantmaking springing a deadline on us 
>>>>>>> related to
>>>>>>> the Inspire campaign, and now a need to reorient our annual plan based 
>>>>>>> on
>>>>>>> expectations that do not appear to be documented on Meta (something 
>>>>>>> that I
>>>>>>> confirmed with someone who is active in another chapter). I am starting 
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> understand why chapters get so frustrated with WMF. My experience with 
>>>>>>> WMF
>>>>>>> prior to this has never had such a series of speedbumps, and I would 
>>>>>>> like
>>>>>>> to know if the Board would like me to address this series of issues that
>>>>>>> spans WMF departments with WMF's new Senior Director of Community
>>>>>>> Engagement, Luis Villa, who was recently promoted out of WMF's Legal
>>>>>>> department. Personally I am quite frustrated at the amount of volunteer
>>>>>>> time that is being expended in unproductive ways, and the systemic 
>>>>>>> nature
>>>>>>> of the problems suggests to me that these issues need to be addressed by
>>>>>>> someone in WMF who is placed highly enough in the organization that they
>>>>>>> can streamline processes and address communication issues across
>>>>>>> departments. Please let me know if you would like me to set up a
>>>>>>> conversation with Luis.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  Pine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    Pine
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  *This is an Encyclopedia* <https://www.wikipedia.org/>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> * One gateway to the wide garden of knowledge, where lies The deep
>>>>>>> rock of our past, in which we must delve The well of our future, The 
>>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>> water we must leave untainted for those who come after us, The fertile
>>>>>>> earth, in which truth may grow in bright places, tended by many hands, 
>>>>>>> And
>>>>>>> the broad fall of sunshine, warming our first steps toward knowing how 
>>>>>>> much
>>>>>>> we do not know. *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *—Catherine Munro *
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>   On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 4:32 PM, Raymond Leonard <
>>>>>>> [email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>   Hi everyone,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  I think that the "Comparison of requirements for affiliation
>>>>>>>> models" table in
>>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_user_groups/Requirements#eligibility
>>>>>>>> probably applies to the WMF's current perception of us.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  To the point of "our priority should be expanding the number and
>>>>>>>> the capacity of our volunteers," the rows at the head of the stable 
>>>>>>>> state
>>>>>>>> that the Minimum active Wikimedia editors & Suggested minimum members 
>>>>>>>> are 3
>>>>>>>> & 10 respectively for a Wikimedia user groups and 10 & 20 respectively 
>>>>>>>> for
>>>>>>>> both Chapters & Thematic organizations.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My takeaway from that page is that the easiest way to build
>>>>>>>> credibility with WMF is to grow our recognized membership beyond the 
>>>>>>>> board
>>>>>>>> & to implement "plans for activities or efforts to advance Wikimedia
>>>>>>>> projects." We already have folks beyond the board who have worked to do
>>>>>>>> this. I think our first step should be to enable & recruit them to join
>>>>>>>> CWUG as members, & then to engage them.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>  Yours,
>>>>>>>>  Peaceray
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Pine W <[email protected]>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Hi Cascadians,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I had a conversation about our draft annual plan with Alex this
>>>>>>>>> afternoon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Alex believes that at this point in our development, our priority
>>>>>>>>> should be expanding the number and the capacity of our volunteers, 
>>>>>>>>> and that
>>>>>>>>> we are too early in our development for the temporary / part-time paid
>>>>>>>>> positions that we proposed in our budget. This means that our goals to
>>>>>>>>> develop institutional partnerships and to do outreach work must be
>>>>>>>>> significantly reduced in proportion to the capacity of our volunteer
>>>>>>>>> network. We know that we have many opportunities for partnerships and
>>>>>>>>> public engagement in the Cascadia region, and hopefully we will still 
>>>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>> able to pursue those partnerships and engagement opportunities at a 
>>>>>>>>> low
>>>>>>>>> intensity level that our volunteers can support in a sustainable way.
>>>>>>>>> Again, Alex believes that our first goal should be to expand our 
>>>>>>>>> volunteer
>>>>>>>>> network.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  We will need to reorient our plans and our budget to focus on
>>>>>>>>> development and support of our volunteer network. I will work on 
>>>>>>>>> redrafting
>>>>>>>>> the goals, calendar, plan and budget over the course of the next 
>>>>>>>>> week, and
>>>>>>>>> have a conversation with Alex about the possible revisions next week. 
>>>>>>>>> I
>>>>>>>>> have also asked Alex to create a learning pattern that describes the
>>>>>>>>> development path of organizations such as ours; I think that such a
>>>>>>>>> learning pattern would have been very helpful to us when we were first
>>>>>>>>> discussing our goals for this year. After the conversations with Alex 
>>>>>>>>> have
>>>>>>>>> finished, I plan to re-engage with our Board to discuss the goals and
>>>>>>>>> funding that Alex and WMF feel that they are willing to support.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  I am cc'ing this email to Alex and hope that she will add any
>>>>>>>>> comments or clarifications that she has. It would probably be best to
>>>>>>>>> direct any questions or comments from Cascadians directly to Alex,
>>>>>>>>> preferably on this list so that others can benefit from the 
>>>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  Thanks,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>    Pine
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  *This is an Encyclopedia* <https://www.wikipedia.org/>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> * One gateway to the wide garden of knowledge, where lies The deep
>>>>>>>>> rock of our past, in which we must delve The well of our future, The 
>>>>>>>>> clear
>>>>>>>>> water we must leave untainted for those who come after us, The fertile
>>>>>>>>> earth, in which truth may grow in bright places, tended by many 
>>>>>>>>> hands, And
>>>>>>>>> the broad fall of sunshine, warming our first steps toward knowing 
>>>>>>>>> how much
>>>>>>>>> we do not know. *
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> *—Catherine Munro *
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>  _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list
>>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list
>>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list
>>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list
>>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list
>>>>> [email protected]
>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list
>>>> [email protected]
>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Affiliations Committee mailing 
>>> [email protected]https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affcom
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> "*Jülüjain wane mmakat* ein kapülain tü alijunakalirua jee
>>> wayuukanairua junain ekerolaa alümüin supüshuwayale etijaanaka. Ayatashi
>>> waya junain."
>>> Carlos M. Colina
>>> Socio, A.C. Wikimedia Venezuela | RIF J-40129321-2 |
>>> www.wikimedia.org.ve <http://wikimedia.org.ve>
>>> Chair, Wikimedia Foundation Affiliations Committee
>>> Phone: +972-52-4869915
>>> Twitter: @maor_x
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list
>>> [email protected]
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia
>>>
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Affiliations Committee mailing list
>> [email protected]
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/affcom
>>
>>
>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-Cascadia mailing list
[email protected]
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-cascadia

Reply via email to