Hi Florence,

Thanks for jumping into this conversation and sharing your illuminating
perspective as an "old timer" :-)  I wanted to take a moment to also thank
you for your initiatives at the time, it's thrilling to imagine what might
have happened if more people had taken an interest in your "less easy
way"[1] of developing membership into a concrete governance model like the
Apache Software Foundation[2].  Without the open, constructive letters you
were writing at the time to communicate between the Board and Wikimedians,
we couldn't be having this conversation now.

I'd love to hear any more thoughts about how we might have, or still could,
work around the Florida recordkeeping requirements,[3] Alex Roshuk for
example suggested that our database may have been an adequate membership
roster, because "names and addresses" could possibly be interpreted to
allow for pseudonyms and email addresses or a WMF P.O. box, as long as
there was no intent to defraud.[4]  Brad Patrick's input on this would be
invaluable as well, thank you for pinging him.  It seems like he might have
recognized that this was uncharted legal territory, and pushed for a
conservative revision of the bylaws to reduce risks and eliminate the open
questions?

Adam
[[mw:User:Adamw]]

[1] https://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimedia-l/2006-June/067648.html
[2] http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html
[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_membership_controversy#Recordkeeping_requirements
[4]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:The_Thadman/Give_Back_Our_Membership#A_few_clarifications
"You seem to think that there is something irreconcilable with pseudonymous
contributions and membership"

On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 2:46 AM, Florence Devouard <fdevou...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Le 27/01/16 19:30, SarahSV a écrit :
>
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Florence Devouard <fdevou...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I read you Sarah. Good point. Hmmm.
>>
>>> But ianal...
>>>
>>> I am sure it was discussed back then, but I forgot the details.
>>>
>>> I contacted Brad on Facebook to suggest him to read the list. Perhaps he
>>> might be willing to comment on this ?
>>>
>>>
>>> Flo
>>>
>>> ​Hi Flo, thanks for doing that.
>>>
>>
>> There's another reference to this in the 22 October 2004 board meeting,
>> where you agreed certain changes to the bylaws, including "​A volunteer
>> member is not required to complete or sign and send any form to the
>> Foundation." [1]
>>
>> Sarah
>>
>> 1. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Meetings/October_22,_2004
>> _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
> Not unsurprisingly. I wanted to make sure that all community members would
> have a say... not only those who happened to sign a document, disclosed
> their identities and perhaps paid a fee. This was my wish.
>
> Further investigating on that matter later on showed that things were not
> so simple.
>
> Of course, in a perfect world, we would have had full legal advice before
> agreeing on bylaws changes, PR advice on how to announce changes, assistant
> support to polish board meeting notes, and so on. We had none of that. I am
> amazed each time I see how much we changed :)
>
> Thinking of "signing a document", the nearest thing we have at the moment
> is the signature system for OTRS agent on Phabricator.
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_information/How_to_sign
>
>
>
> Thanks Sarah
>
> Florence
>
> PS: I am
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>


On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 2:49 AM Florence Devouard <fdevou...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Le 27/01/16 19:30, SarahSV a écrit :
> > On Wed, Jan 27, 2016 at 8:28 AM, Florence Devouard <fdevou...@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> > I read you Sarah. Good point. Hmmm.
> >> But ianal...
> >>
> >> I am sure it was discussed back then, but I forgot the details.
> >>
> >> I contacted Brad on Facebook to suggest him to read the list. Perhaps he
> >> might be willing to comment on this ?
> >>
> >>
> >> Flo
> >>
> >> ​Hi Flo, thanks for doing that.
> >
> > There's another reference to this in the 22 October 2004 board meeting,
> > where you agreed certain changes to the bylaws, including "​A volunteer
> > member is not required to complete or sign and send any form to the
> > Foundation." [1]
> >
> > Sarah
> >
> > 1. https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Meetings/October_22,_2004
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
>
> Not unsurprisingly. I wanted to make sure that all community members
> would have a say... not only those who happened to sign a document,
> disclosed their identities and perhaps paid a fee. This was my wish.
>
> Further investigating on that matter later on showed that things were
> not so simple.
>
> Of course, in a perfect world, we would have had full legal advice
> before agreeing on bylaws changes, PR advice on how to announce changes,
> assistant support to polish board meeting notes, and so on. We had none
> of that. I am amazed each time I see how much we changed :)
>
> Thinking of "signing a document", the nearest thing we have at the
> moment is the signature system for OTRS agent on Phabricator.
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Confidentiality_agreement_for_nonpublic_information/How_to_sign
>
>
>
>
> Thanks Sarah
>
> Florence
>
> PS: I am
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-requ...@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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