Sorry, by "you" I meant the board.
It's obvious that you, for one, stand with the community. > On Aug 24, 2019, at 1:29 AM, James Heilman <[email protected]> wrote: > > @ Benjamin I have never said that I would "consider overriding the > community in such a massive way". What I have said is that I hope the wider > community will engage with and provide feedback to the core group who is > working on developing the strategy. Much of the draft is really good, some > requires more discussion and some adjustments. > > James > > On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 11:12 PM Benjamin Ikuta <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> >> >> It is disturbing that you would even consider overriding the community in >> such a massive way. >> >> >> >> On Aug 23, 2019, at 9:44 PM, James Heilman <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> The board will be discussing this of course. We do not have a group >>> position at this point in time. >>> >>> J >>> >>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:47 PM Jeff Hawke <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> >>>> James >>>> >>>> Thanks for that. As a member of the Board, would you clarify the >> Board's >>>> position on whether it is prepared to see the final Recommendations >>>> implemented irrespective of any disagreement from the community? >>>> >>>> Jeff >>>> >>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:05 PM James Heilman <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I for one do not agree with Jan-Bart's prior position. >>>>> >>>>> James >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 4:40 AM Jeff Hawke <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Paulo, >>>>>> >>>>>> You suggest that "things will not get pretty if the Wikimedia >> community >>>>>> does not approve some of the recommendations". You may recall that >>>> just >>>>>> five years ago, Jan-Bart de Vreede, then chair of the WMF Board, >>>>> expressed >>>>>> the opinion >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:LilaTretikov_(WMF)&diff=prev&oldid=9585319 >>>>>> over >>>>>> a much less dramatic change. >>>>>> >>>>>>> All of this is going to require change, change that might not be >>>>>> acceptable to some of you. I hope that all of you will be a part of >>>> this >>>>>> next step in our evolution. But I understand that if you decide to >>>> take a >>>>>> wiki-break, that might be the way things have to be. Even so, you have >>>> to >>>>>> let the Foundation do its work and allow us all to take that next step >>>>> when >>>>>> needed. I can only hope that your break is temporary, and that you >> will >>>>>> return when the time is right. >>>>>> >>>>>> I presume this is a good summary of the WMF position today. >>>>>> >>>>>> Jeff >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Aug 23, 2019 at 12:06 AM Paulo Santos Perneta < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> If I've well understood the timeline, all input from the Wikimedia >>>>>>> community ceases in mid September. Then it's all defined by the WGs >>>>> 8and >>>>>>> their advisors), and eventually decided upon by the BoT around >>>>> December. >>>>>>> Therefore, after 15 September or so, the Wikimedia community will >>>> only >>>>> be >>>>>>> dealing with those recommendations again when they are already in the >>>>>>> process of implementation. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's quite easy to predict that things will not get pretty if the >>>>>> Wikimedia >>>>>>> community does not approve some of the recommendations that pass all >>>>> the >>>>>>> way till implementation phase. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Paulo >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Nicole Ebber <[email protected]> escreveu no dia quinta, >>>>>>> 22/08/2019 >>>>>>> à(s) 11:58: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thank you for your engagement and input. It’s been great seeing so >>>>> much >>>>>>>> attention on movement strategy and collaborative efforts for >>>> building >>>>>> our >>>>>>>> future. Here are a couple of follow up responses and >>>> clarifications. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> DRAFTS >>>>>>>> As pointed out in my previous email, the documents we recently >>>> shared >>>>>> are >>>>>>>> recommendation drafts. They are not final, and not complete, but >>>>>> working >>>>>>>> documents that are currently being refined by the working groups. >>>>> Some >>>>>>>> answers still read like stubs that are longing for further >>>>> development, >>>>>>>> others are very detailed and will become more focused over the next >>>>> few >>>>>>>> weeks. We still decided to publish everything at once, to give >>>>>> everyone a >>>>>>>> full picture of the variety of topics and offer an insight into >>>>>> multiple >>>>>>>> progress levels. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I would also like to reiterate that movement values, priorities and >>>>>>>> community conversation processes are high on our radar. A >>>>>> recommendation >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> change the existing license model, for example, will not just go >>>>>> through >>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> quick approval process, but lead to a deeper exploration into the >>>>>>> reasoning >>>>>>>> behind it: What problems are we trying to tackle, and what could be >>>>>> ways >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> mitigate them? Such recommendation would then rather suggest to >>>> look >>>>>> into >>>>>>>> different measures to ensure indigenous knowledge is included in >>>> the >>>>>>>> Wikimedia ecosystem, deploy research and further consultation, >>>>> instead >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> rushing to a quick fix. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> INTEGRATION >>>>>>>> The working groups are taking input that they gathered at Wikimania >>>>> and >>>>>>> via >>>>>>>> different movement channels and incorporating it into the next >>>>>> iteration >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> their recommendations. These documents will then serve as a basis >>>> for >>>>>>>> harmonization across working groups. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The input that we are gathering comes in on different levels. Some >>>> of >>>>>> it >>>>>>>> targets structural level changes or emphasizes specific principles >>>> or >>>>>>>> values, while other feedback is more on the programmatic side or >>>>>> already >>>>>>>> addressing implementation. Structural input will continue to be >>>>>>> considered >>>>>>>> in forthcoming iterations of the recommendations. Programmatic >>>> input >>>>>> will >>>>>>>> be documented and taken forward to inform the implementation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> TIMELINE >>>>>>>> We wanted to get the English drafts out as soon as possible and the >>>>>>>> translations on a rolling basis, so that Wikimania participants >>>> could >>>>>>> read >>>>>>>> and prepare to engage in person. Over the next few weeks, we will >>>> do >>>>>>>> targeted, public outreach to online project communities in multiple >>>>>>>> languages. We are soliciting feedback to shape the overall >>>> direction >>>>> of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> recommendations through mid-September. Working Groups are already >>>>>> working >>>>>>>> on identifying gaps and overlaps with other groups to prepare for >>>>>>>> harmonization. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> At the harmonization sprint in Tunis on 20-22 September, we will >>>>> bring >>>>>> 3 >>>>>>>> representatives from each Working Group together to work to >>>> develop a >>>>>>> more >>>>>>>> coherent set of recommendations. The group will be supported by >>>>>>>> facilitators and external advice, as well as the core team. We have >>>>>> also >>>>>>>> invited María Sefidari, Katherine Maher, Ryan Merkley, Valerie >>>>> D’Costa >>>>>>>> (Wikimedia Foundation) and Abraham Taherivand (Wikimedia >>>> Deutschland) >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the sprint. They contribute expertise and experience from their >>>> work >>>>>> and >>>>>>>> leadership in the movement and beyond. They will be active >>>> listeners >>>>>> and >>>>>>>> can challenge recommendations by pointing out risks and >>>> consequences >>>>> on >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> organizational and movement level. They also participate as the >>>>>>>> representatives of organizations that may be impacted by the >>>>>>>> recommendations. Involving them early is important so they can >>>>>> anticipate >>>>>>>> any possible changes for their staff and programs, and plan for >>>>>>>> implementation. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Our aim is to release recommendations in November 2019, and present >>>>>> them >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the Board of Trustees for approval in December. We will need the >>>>> legal >>>>>>>> authority of the board for some of the recommendations, while >>>> others >>>>>> will >>>>>>>> then be further delegated to other community mechanisms and >>>>> structures >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> approval or further consultation.[1] There will be additional >>>> public >>>>>>>> consultation activities around implementation that will be >>>> discussed >>>>>> and >>>>>>>> owned across the movement. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> WORKING GROUPS >>>>>>>> We have chosen the working group model to ensure that the process >>>>> that >>>>>>>> embarks to make significant changes to our movement structures is >>>>> owned >>>>>>> by >>>>>>>> the community. Members of the nine working group were selected by a >>>>>>>> steering committee and the groups were established in July 2019.[2] >>>>>> Group >>>>>>>> members come from different parts of the movement, e.g. from >>>>> different >>>>>>>> regions and languages, from individual contributors and organized >>>>>> groups, >>>>>>>> and with different volunteer and staff roles, incl. Wikimedia >>>>>> Foundation >>>>>>>> staff and board. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The groups are doing an amazing job. With many of them being >>>>>> volunteers, >>>>>>> or >>>>>>>> doing this work on top of their regular jobs, creating the draft >>>>>>>> recommendations is a huge achievement. They first needed to form, >>>>> storm >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> norm as a group and figure out how to best work together across >>>> time >>>>>>> zones, >>>>>>>> languages, and contexts. They then took a deep dive into the >>>>> substance >>>>>>> and >>>>>>>> identified the scope of their work and the specific questions to >>>>> tackle >>>>>>> for >>>>>>>> us as a movement to advance in our strategic direction. The >>>>> development >>>>>>> of >>>>>>>> recommendations has started in spring this year, and – aside from >>>>> many >>>>>>>> online calls, asynchronous work and scarce in-person meetings – >>>>>> included >>>>>>>> incorporating community conversations and external expertise. It is >>>>>> only >>>>>>> to >>>>>>>> the hard work of these groups that we finally have something >>>> tangible >>>>>> in >>>>>>>> front of us that we can all react to and help further improve to >>>>> build >>>>>>> our >>>>>>>> future together. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Please join us in thanking, celebrating and supporting them, rather >>>>>> than >>>>>>>> rushing to conclusions or arguing over details. Please contribute >>>> in >>>>>>> good >>>>>>>> faith, and in a constructive way. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Let me know if you have further questions. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>>>> Nicole >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/July_2018_-_Board_of_Trustees_participation_in_the_Movement_Strategy_Process >>>>>>>> [2] >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Procedures >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 21 Aug 2019 at 13:13, Yaroslav Blanter <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> And this is the core problem of the whole process (which has been >>>>>>> pointed >>>>>>>>> out by multiple people from the very beginning) >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers >>>>>>>>> Yaroslav >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Wed, Aug 21, 2019 at 12:27 PM Jeff Hawke < >>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Andy >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 7:41 PM Andy Mabbett < >>>>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Mon, 19 Aug 2019 at 09:55, Jeff Hawke < >>>>>> [email protected]> >>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> the WG then collate them and decide the final form of the >>>>>>>>>>>> recommendations, to be implemented by the WMF >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> This seems to be missing a rather crucial intermediate step; >>>>> the >>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> where the recommendations are accepted, or not, by the wider >>>>>>>> Wikimedia >>>>>>>>>>> community. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> That step is not mentioned at >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Frequently_asked_questions#What_steps_will_take_place_in_the_next_few_months_to_put_a_decision-making_process_in_place >>>>>>>>>> ? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Jeff >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>>>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Nicole Ebber >>>>>>>> Adviser International Relations >>>>>>>> Program Manager Wikimedia 2030 Movement Strategy >>>>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland e. V. | Tempelhofer Ufer 23-24 | 10963 Berlin >>>>>>>> Tel. (030) 219 158 26-0 >>>>>>>> https://wikimedia.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Unsere Vision ist eine Welt, in der alle Menschen am Wissen der >>>>>>> Menschheit >>>>>>>> teilhaben, es nutzen und mehren können. Helfen Sie uns dabei! >>>>>>>> https://spenden.wikimedia.de >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Wikimedia Deutschland — Gesellschaft zur Förderung Freien Wissens >>>> e. >>>>> V. >>>>>>>> Eingetragen im Vereinsregister des Amtsgerichts >>>> Berlin-Charlottenburg >>>>>>> unter >>>>>>>> der Nummer 23855 B. Als gemeinnützig anerkannt durch das Finanzamt >>>>> für >>>>>>>> Körperschaften I Berlin, Steuernummer 27/029/42207. >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected] >>>> ?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>>>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l >> , >>>>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> James Heilman >>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> New messages to: [email protected] >>>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >>>> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> James Heilman >>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> New messages to: [email protected] >>> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> New messages to: [email protected] >> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, >> <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> > > > > -- > James Heilman > MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > New messages to: [email protected] > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, > <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe> _______________________________________________ Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l New messages to: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:[email protected]?subject=unsubscribe>
