Hoi,
Calling someone "flippant" is a direct attack - not showing a serious or
respectful attitude - is what I find it means.. When you talk about serious
risk then I am sure that you have done a proper risk analysis.

When you consider risk, there is a balance to be found between the greater
good and the riscs involved. Our conventions are world wide and it is an
explicit aim to share in the sum of all worldwide. Consequently it is not
on to exclude countries for any reason. I will agree that attention is
appropriate when we consider where we are going.

When we do a risk analysis, the greater risk are medical risks because
people may get a whole host of diseases they ignore to be cognisant over. A
risk that we do not communicate. When you then consider the flippant
notions people have about vaccinations, the fact that such travel
advisories are not communicated we have another flippant aspect of our
travels that is not properly handled.

When I consider my own experience re conferences, I fly in to the
conference just in time. I take appropriate rest so that I am at my best at
the conference, I am fully occupied with the conference and when the day is
done I go to the hotel, eat, and prepare for the next day. When the
conference is done it is time to fly home. The point is that the notion of
people on holidays and people at a conference differ in their behaviour and
therefore their risks differ considerably. When people go to our conference
in Tunis or anywhere it is not a holiday, they tend to particularly engage
with people at the conference and this is yet another aspect mitigating the
risk.

I agree with you that Tunisia is not paradise. Your attacking style however
is your choice but you forgot to do the basics. For me it follows that your
singular point of view gets in the way what we aim to achieve, you may call
me flippant and, that says more about you than about me.
Thanks,
     GerardM





On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 08:18, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Gerard, your comments are flippant and deflect from the serious risk
> that our volunteers and employees are being subject to.
>
> Tunis is unsafe for LGBT+ people. None of our LGBT+ volunteers or
> employees should travel to tunis.
>
> LGBT+ travellers risk 3 years in prison, not in theory, in practice
> foreign tourists are being held in prison. The police are actively
> setting up sting operations, having used Grindr to entrap gay men,
> search their phones to discover who their friends are and any LGBT+
> material, then prosecute them for being homosexuals. Again not theory,
> this is evidence presented in the Tunis courts during prosecution. I
> and other Wikimedians at events have used Grindr and other LGBT+
> social networks during Wikimedia conferences to talk to each other. I
> and other Wikimedians have openly discussed LGBT+ topics on Wikimedia
> public projects, this material is hardly secret from the Tunis police,
> neither should the WMF or any other Affiliate ever put LGBT+
> volunteers in a position where we have to pretend not to be LGBT+.
>
> The USA is unwelcoming, with trans people likely to be abused or
> humiliated during immigration and having their digital data stolen by
> the NSA, but they are not subject to the threat of a 3 year prison
> sentence solely for being LGBT+.
>
> Thanks,
> Fae
> --
> fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> WM-LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
>
> On Wed, 18 Sep 2019 at 06:42, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijs...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hoi,
> > To be honest, there are great reasons not to having meetings in the
> United
> > States for similar reasons. The notion of conversion of homosexuality is
> > alive and well, even though people who care to look at the science know
> > that it does not work. The murder rate among LGBTI people is sky high.
> The
> > country is highly discriminatory, not only because of race. The USA is a
> > country at war, the numbers show why; more USA civilians die because of
> gun
> > violence than do USA military personnel. The ease whereby the murder on
> > women is explained away with arguments like "she was at the wrong time at
> > the wrong place" and "boys will be boys".
> >
> > The point, when you advocate against countries, there is hardly anywhere
> > where your arguments don't hold. The objective is to educate and where we
> > stay away our message will not be heard. The Dutch "Zwarte Piet" will no
> > longer be black because of the foreign imposition of what is the
> > discriminatory practice "blackface" in the USA. But I digress. We should
> > engage all over the world particularly when the SDG are topical because
> > what global effect will it have when we ostracise countries like Tunesia
> or
> > the USA?
> >
> > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 23:33, Fæ <fae...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > It astonishing that the WMF and affiliates are supporting a conference
> > > in Tunis. The country is not safe for LGBT+ people, including
> > > tourists, despite what promotional holiday and travel websites imply.
> > >
> > > I urge anyone who is LGBT+ and booked to go to this conference,
> > > including WMF employees, please reconsider and cancel your attendance.
> > > You will be putting yourself at unnecessary risk.
> > >
> > > It speaks volumes that on the one hand the WMF wishes to fund travel
> > > and accommodation for a diversity working group, but then chooses to
> > > hold the meetings in a country where this year there are cases of the
> > > courts officially forcing anal examinations on suspected homosexuals
> > > to "prove" they are homosexuals, deny the existence of trans people,
> > > and where there has been a case of a foreign tourist going to prison
> > > for their homosexuality.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Fae
> > > --
> > > fae...@gmail.com https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Fae
> > > WM-LGBT+ https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_LGBT+
> > >
> > > On Tue, 17 Sep 2019 at 20:26, Ad Huikeshoven <a...@huikeshoven.org>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > tl;dr Wikipedia can engage millions, billions of people to achieve
> the
> > > > Sustainable Development Goals by 2030
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedians and Wikipedians around the world have been involved with
> > > > Wikimedia 2030 since 2015. The strategic direction is to build the
> > > > essential infrastructure of the ecosystem of free knowledge. Back in
> > > 2015 a
> > > > total of 193 members of the United Nations agreed to the 17
> Sustainable
> > > > Developments Goals to be reached by the year 2030. Last August many
> of
> > > you
> > > > were in Stockholm, Sweden for Wikimania. The theme this year was
> > > “Stronger
> > > > Together: Wikimedia, Free Knowledge and the Sustainable Development
> > > > Goals”.[1]
> > > >
> > > > Michael Edson, founder and director of UN Live, the Museum of the UN
> in
> > > > Kopenhagen, Denmark held a keynote and asked Wikipedia for help. The
> UN
> > > > isn’t able to reach millions, billions of people on its own to have
> them
> > > > work on achieving the SDGs.[2] Wikipedia reaches half a billion
> people
> > > each
> > > > month. Millions of people have contributed to Wikipedia.
> > > >
> > > > Of course Wikipedia can spread the knowledge about the SDGs and how
> to
> > > > solve them in each country, and in each language. We can make a very
> good
> > > > case for an “open access knowledge sharing project related to the
> > > > Sustainable Development Goals that uses Wikipedia as a tool”. A lot
> of
> > > > knowledge will have to be gathered locally about local solutions to
> local
> > > > problems. We as a free knowledge movement have done so succesfully
> in the
> > > > past. We can do succesfully now.
> > > >
> > > > The one big reason to step upto the challenge is in the vision of the
> > > > movement: “Imagine a world in which every single human being can
> freely
> > > > share in the sum of all knowledge.” Imagine every single human having
> > > > access to how to solve each of the Sustainable Development Goals in
> their
> > > > locality, in their language.[3]
> > > >
> > > > Another reason is part of our mission: to empower and engage people
> > > around
> > > > the world to collect and develop educational content.[4] Might people
> > > > involved with the movement be able to educate people why and how to
> solve
> > > > global goals locally?
> > > >
> > > > Knowledge about SDGs is just a small subset of all knowledge. It
> would
> > > be a
> > > > big step for mankind to have exactly that knowledge available well
> before
> > > > the year 2030.[5] It won’t impede anyone to collect and share
> knowledge
> > > > outside that subset, however.
> > > >
> > > > To make it happen imagine having a small office with a handful
> dedicated
> > > > people in each country. People with the capacity to build
> partnerships
> > > with
> > > > NGO’s, universities, research institutions, government agencies,
> groups
> > > of
> > > > citizens who are already involved with the SDGs.[6] People with the
> > > > capacity to organize SDG themed writing contests and SDG themed
> > > > edit-a-thons with participants from interested parties.[7]
> > > >
> > > > As written above, it has been agreed to build the essential
> > > infrastructure
> > > > of the ecosystem of free knowledge. Why would it be worthwhile to
> invest
> > > 50
> > > > million dollar a year to build such an infrastructure?[8] With those
> tiny
> > > > offices in each country we it can exactly be done what Michael Edson
> > > begged
> > > > us to do: get millions (or billions) of people working together on
> global
> > > > goals and share the knowledge they gathered. To connect people
> everywhere
> > > > and catalyze global effort toward accomplishing the Sustainable
> > > Development
> > > > Goals.
> > > >
> > > > The Wikimedia movement has the capacity to raise the necessary funds
> > > > through banners on Wikipedia on top of what is now already
> collected, and
> > > > alreadt spent each year.[9] After a long period - over four years -
> of
> > > > mainly inward looking activities of board and working groups, the
> time
> > > has
> > > > come to look outwards. The works of our movement have influence
> globally
> > > > and can have global impact. Not impact measured as number of
> articles, or
> > > > number of editors retained, but impact on the real social life of
> seven
> > > > billion people, by sharing knowledge how to end poverty, how to end
> > > hunger
> > > > and so on.[11]
> > > >
> > > > Imagine a world where there is no poverty and zero hunger; with good
> > > health
> > > > and well-being, quality education and full gender equality
> everywhere.
> > > > There is clean water and sanitation for everyone. Affordable and
> clean
> > > > energy has helped to create decent work and economic growth.
> Prosperity
> > > is
> > > > fueled by investments in industry, innovation and infrastructure,
> which
> > > > helped to reduce inequalities. Living in sustainable cities and
> > > > communities, and responsible consumption and production are healing
> our
> > > > world. Climate action has capped the warming of the planet, and life
> > > below
> > > > water is flourishing, and there is abundant diverse life on land.
> There
> > > is
> > > > peace and justice through strong institutions, and long term
> partnerships
> > > > for the goals have been built.[12]
> > > >
> > > > In the coming weeks I continue to have talks with people to get an
> “open
> > > > access knowledge sharing project related to the Sustainable
> Development
> > > > Goals that uses Wikipedia as a tool” or Wiki loves SDGs project
> started
> > > and
> > > > launched. People willing to get involved, please contact me through
> > > private
> > > > message.
> > > >
> > > > Next week will start a strategy sprint in Tunis, with members of
> working
> > > > groups present, the board of the WMF, chiefs of the WMF office and
> some
> > > > people of WMDE to finalize the recommendations for Wikimedia 2030.
> Have a
> > > > look at the SDGs and think about what you can do for the SDGs, and
> not
> > > what
> > > > the SDGs can do for you.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Ad Huikeshoven
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania (Thank you,
> > > Wittylama)
> > > > [2]
> > > >
> > >
> https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikimania_2019_Keynote_address_–_Michael_Peter_Edson.webm
> > > > [3] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Vision
> > > > [4] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mission
> > > > [5] https://www.sdgnederland.nl/sdg-moonshot/
> > > > [6]
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Partnerships/Recommendations/Nutshell
> > > > [7]
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Capacity_Building/Recommendations/Nutshell
> > > > [8]
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Resource_Allocation/Recommendations/Nutshell
> > > > [9]
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Revenue_Streams/Recommendations/Nutshell
> > > > [10]
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Strategy/Wikimedia_movement/2018-20/Working_Groups/Roles_%26_Responsibilities/Recommendations/Nutshell
> > > > [11]
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Learning_and_Evaluation/Logic_models
> > > > [12] https://www.thenewdivision.world/the-global-goals
>
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