It is hard to determine what is being complained about, when the letter
does not actually link to any of the threads it complains about. If it did
that, it would be much more easily possible for someone to look into the
substance of it. It states that it has been linked to "continual bad-faith
arguments" (itself concerning; that's not a neutral summary) of discussions
"on the project’s talk page, on the administrators’ bulletin and on Le
Bistro and a formal RFC — including calls for the disestablishment of the
project on the basis of concerns around Conflicts of interest and Paid

Where are the links to those discussions? Where can I see what concerns
were raised? If there is paid editing going on, that's a substantial
concern, as is COI. If the arguments are in bad faith, well, that should be
readily apparent, too. But where are the links?


On Mon, Sep 19, 2022 at 5:17 AM Lane Chance <> wrote:

> Responding to LGBTQ minority communities raising legitimate, evidence
> based, concerns of systemic bias with "stay in your lane"?
> I don't think I've read anything more tone deaf.
> The give away is "Without having looked into the actual substance". Do
> the research before rushing to punch down the voice of minority
> groups.
> Lane
> On Mon, 19 Sept 2022 at 01:25, Yair Rand <> wrote:
> >
> > Without having looked into the actual substance of whatever dispute is
> going on among frwiki and LSP, I want to put forward some good general
> principles:
> > * The individual hiring and firing decisions of our organizations should
> be under the exclusive jurisdiction of the entities assigned those
> responsibilities. Public community pressure should not be able to get
> someone fired or hired, or prevent any particular hiring or firing
> decision. A public protest against someone's hiring is unproductive and
> damages the collaborative environment.
> > * Responding to a community's attitude by sending out a monodirectional
> communication, organized off-wiki and listing supporters' affiliate
> positions, is basically the most conflict-oriented way possible to approach
> this.
> >
> > How an affiliate manages their individual hires is the affiliate's
> business. HR activities are complicated, and do not need to be handled in
> the public sphere. If an affiliate wants to hire whoever, the community
> doesn't get to veto it.
> >
> > How a community reacts to an affiliate's actions is their own business.
> Affiliates do not get a say in local community affairs. A usergroup's or
> chapter's collective opinion is completely irrelevant in a community
> dialogue. If the community wants to ban someone, or even the entire
> membership of a group, they can do that, and affiliates don't get to veto
> it.
> >
> > (Seriously: It doesn't matter if you're the WMF's Board Chair, the CEO,
> or whatever, you don't get an extra vote in an RfC.)
> >
> > (It should go without saying that hostile/uncivil behaviour, harassment,
> and accusations of bad faith are not acceptable.)
> >
> > Everyone, please stay in your lane. This is like the only place on
> Wikimedia where we clearly even _have_ obvious distinct lanes, it should be
> manageable.
> >
> > -- Yair Rand
> >
> >
> > ‫בתאריך יום ו׳, 16 בספט׳ 2022 ב-4:30 מאת ‪WM LGBT‬‏ <‪
> >>
> >> Link:
> >>
> >> Over 35 Wikimedia organisations and many individual Wikimedians have
> >> signed in support of the initiative of our Wikimedia Affiliate Les
> >> sans pagEs professionalising their work by hiring Nattes à chat as
> >> executive director to continue their longstanding work addressing
> >> systemic bias on Wikipedia and our sister projects and groups.
> >>
> >> Les sans pagEs should be free and supported to create a better
> >> quality, more complete French-language encyclopedia, representative of
> >> different perspectives and lived experiences, instead of having to
> >> defend their work against baseless accusations of malpractice.
> >>
> >> Please ask on the meta discussion page if you would like to add your
> >> Wikimedia organisation or name in support.
> >>
> >> On behalf of
> >> Wikimedia LGBT+ User Group
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Wikimedia-l mailing list --,
> guidelines at:
> and
> >> Public archives at
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list --, guidelines
> at: and
> > Public archives at
> > To unsubscribe send an email to
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list --, guidelines
> at: and
> Public archives at
> To unsubscribe send an email to
Wikimedia-l mailing list --, guidelines at: and
Public archives at
To unsubscribe send an email to

Reply via email to