Hi all, For everyone's information, Ravan has this reply:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/October_2025_update#Smear_Campaign_Against_Ravan,_Wikimedia_Foundation_BoT_Candidate Regards, William On Sat, 11 Oct 2025 at 22:16, Christophe Henner <[email protected]> wrote: > 2 out 4 of your examples are features related not corporate governance. > 1 the support of the community was instrumental but it was going with > Foundation Staff. > 1 has nothing to do with community, James was re appointed after running > again (I was chair at that time I would know). > > And that narrative « Community has the power » has been part of the > problem. > > First there is no such thing as The Community. There is not even A Editors > Community. We have many different communities. And most of them are not > even part of those discussions… > > Second the majority of communities don’t care about all of those topics. > > Third The Community is one center of power Foundation is the other. > Thinking otherwise is killing any room for the required discussions, > compromised and shared decisions. > > It’s entertaining the « us versus them » which is the core of the problem. > > We are all in the same boat. The world is burning. Free and Neutral > knowledge has never been as political as today. But yeah sure let’s have > more infighting and focus on the episode we are going through (again, not > the first time at all) and not on the systemic issue. > > -- > Christophe > > > On Sat, Oct 11, 2025 at 3:41 PM Pete Forsyth <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Christophe, >> >> I appreciate the spirit of what you're saying, but I have to question the >> idea that Wikimedia Foundation decisions do not get reversed. >> >> - The VisualEditor was made "opt-in" after being released as the >> default. >> - The Superprotect software feature was removed. >> - Executive Director Lila Tretikov did not remain in her position >> long. >> - Trustee James Heilman was reseated after being removed. >> >> I don't know that any of these changes was made in a way or on a schedule >> that properly mitigated or reversed the initial damage, but the changes did >> happen. >> >> Wikimedia has only one generative power center: the collection of editors >> who create and refine the content of the wikis. That content is without >> equal, even among web properties whose annual budgets utterly eclipse that >> of the Foundation. The Board has some limited amount of power to support >> and cultivate and focus that power, and has the power to intentionally or >> unintentionally undermine the value created by editors. But the Board does >> not have a whole lot of power to actually build something. At least, not >> power that we've seen thoroughly exercised to date. >> >> Pete Forsyth >> [[User:Peteforsyth]] >> >> On Fri, Oct 10, 2025 at 11:11 PM Christophe Henner < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> This decision will not be changed. >>> >>> When a Board makes a decision it ***knows*** the communities will hate >>> and come after them for, it is not taken lightly. You think, debate, and >>> argue a lot before you act. And when you finally do, it is because you have >>> to. >>> >>> You do not do that on a whim. >>> >>> And this is not the first time. >>> >>> We are in a loop, and it feels like we have grown used to it. >>> >>> The same scenario repeats again and again. Trustees change, different >>> backgrounds, beliefs, perspectives, yet the underlying dynamics stay the >>> same. >>> >>> We have a systemic issue that has been with us for years. >>> >>> The Foundation is still perceived as a community body. It is not, and it >>> never was. It’s a US based organisation operating and protecting the >>> websites and the brands. >>> >>> Board elections have always been elections in name only. They are a way >>> for the communities to recommend candidates, not to appoint them. >>> >>> It is long past time we acknowledge that we have built a system with two >>> centers of power, the Foundation and the communities, that do not share >>> that power. This permanent imbalance creates constant tension, wastes time >>> and energy, and ultimately weakens our entire movement. >>> >>> It is time we face that reality together. >>> >>> This latest situation is only another symptom of a much deeper problem, >>> one we have chosen to tolerate for too long. >>> >>> Perhaps we have grown to even love this loop? >>> >>> But I, for one, am tired of it. >>> >>> No one here is doing something wrong; it is the system we built that is >>> wrong. >>> >>> Christophe >>> >>> On Sat, Oct 11, 2025 at 7:07 AM Pete Forsyth <[email protected]> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Apologies for the second post, but I had missed Stuart Prior's >>>> illuminating post about Ravan J Al-Taie's candidacy. At this particular >>>> moment in history, it seems likely that the denial of her candidacy will be >>>> the one that brings greater damage to the reputation of the Wikimedia >>>> Foundation. >>>> >>>> For those not familiar with the issue of alleged systematic rape on >>>> October 7, I would urge you to read the English Wikipedia article about it: >>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screams_Without_Words and to consider >>>> the underlying sources (primarily, a podcast produced by the *New York >>>> Times* which called into question the accuracy of a front page story >>>> in the same publication, and was subsequently suppressed), and in the >>>> *Intercept.* Briefly, the *Times* drove a story, which two years later >>>> remains published, alleging systematic rape, apparently based solely on the >>>> unauthenticated testimony of parties who had strong, undisclosed political >>>> motivations. >>>> >>>> A core argument in the *Jerusalem Post's* case against Ravan rests on >>>> the notion that "*According to the International Holocaust Remembrance >>>> Alliance definition of antisemitism, drawing comparisons of contemporary >>>> Israeli policy to that of the Nazis is a form of antisemitism*." I >>>> think most Wikipedians would agree, denying the comparison of two policy >>>> positions is hardly compatible with the pursuit of free knowledge. >>>> >>>> Above all, I think the greatest possible harm to the Wikimedia >>>> Foundation in this instance would derive from any perception -- whether >>>> accurate or not -- that the Wikimedia Foundation capitulates to external >>>> calls to sanitize an election of specific political views. >>>> >>>> -Pete Forsyth >>>> [[User:Peteforsyth]] >>>> >>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 6:16 AM Stuart Prior via Wikimedia-l < >>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Victoria, >>>>> >>>>> As per Chris, the explanation is welcome for its clarity. >>>>> >>>>> However, in the case of Ravan, "the risks for the public reputation of >>>>> WMF” are overriding more things than gender equity here. >>>>> >>>>> My understanding is this decision will be wholly or at least >>>>> substantively in reaction to the Jerusalem Post piece >>>>> <https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-863804> (1) on >>>>> Ravan, and the potential for proliferation of this type of coverage. >>>>> If so, it’s very concerning to see an article that is effectively a >>>>> direct demand that she be removed from contention for the board (citing >>>>> the >>>>> movement's own UCoC) achieve its goal so easily. >>>>> It could be there are other things I’m not aware of, but that a major >>>>> newspaper didn’t pick them up suggests to me that those listed represent >>>>> the most controversial things anyone can find. >>>>> >>>>> Whether we agree with them or not, the opinions expressed are not >>>>> outliers within the Wikimedia community globally. If they are considered >>>>> disqualifying, it effectively excludes any Wikimedian who’s ever shared or >>>>> “liked" similar social media posts from participating in senior movement >>>>> governance, as they will no doubt receive similar treatment, especially if >>>>> they are from certain parts of the world. >>>>> >>>>> In a sense, this is a logical decision for the an American nonprofit, >>>>> comms-wise, fundraising-wise, even legally, but from the outside it looks >>>>> like an area where WMF's operational, domestic priorities are winning out >>>>> over its wider global responsibilities, increasing other risks in the >>>>> process. >>>>> >>>>> Best >>>>> >>>>> Stuart Prior >>>>> User:Battleofalma >>>>> >>>>> (1) https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-863804 >>>>> >>>>> On 9 Oct 2025, at 10:46, Chris Keating <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Thanks Victoria >>>>> >>>>> Just as you posted this I was on Meta writing a post (1) asking to >>>>> know what the Board's real reasons were but it seems you have cleared that >>>>> up >>>>> >>>>> I have been trying to put myself in the Board's shoes over the last >>>>> few days and, for what it's worth, I suspect I might personally have >>>>> reached the same conclusion regarding Lane's candidacy. However I don't >>>>> believe Ravan has said anything that should disqualify her from being on >>>>> the Board. Bluntly, excluding her has done more meaningful damage to the >>>>> WMF's reputation than seating her would have done if she had won the >>>>> election. >>>>> >>>>> Chris >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/October_2025_update#Some_more_thoughts. >>>>> .. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 10:19 AM Victoria Doronina < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hello Hannah, >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm writing this as a Wikimedian, relying solely on publicly >>>>>> available information. I'm sorry, but I will not reply to any questions, >>>>>> as >>>>>> the last time I tried, it didn't end well. >>>>>> >>>>>> It may sound counterintuitive, but WMF is sometimes too nice and >>>>>> careful about the reputation of wikimedians and this leaves room for >>>>>> speculation. >>>>>> In this case, the WMF left a lot of room for candidates who didn't >>>>>> pass the preliminary stages of the vetting process to withdraw with >>>>>> grace, >>>>>> but it didn't work, and now we have multiple petitions for the >>>>>> reinstatement of these candidates. >>>>>> >>>>>> Concerning Ravan, future candidates should be more cautious about >>>>>> what they post on social media, as some posts pose significant risks to >>>>>> the >>>>>> WMF's reputation, primarily because the press is particularly vigilant >>>>>> about the WMF board candidates at the moment. I'm supporting women (you >>>>>> may >>>>>> have noticed that I'm a woman too) and LGBTQIA+, but in this instance, I >>>>>> cannot support her candidacy, because the risks for the public reputation >>>>>> of WMF outweigh the risks to gender equity. >>>>>> >>>>>> As for Lane, he >>>>>> >>>>>> * publicly stated in his candidate video (1' in) that WMF is going to >>>>>> replace some of the text in Wikipedia with the text written by AI - *this >>>>>> is not true*, as anyone who has read the WMF AI strategy would know. >>>>>> Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Candidates/Lane Rasberry - >>>>>> Meta-Wiki >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Candidates/Lane_Rasberry> >>>>>> >>>>>> * Publicly written in the candidate statement: >>>>>> >>>>>> *I set up a Right to Information >>>>>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Information> project on >>>>>> Meta-Wiki >>>>>> because years ago, I wanted information, and I could not find a way to >>>>>> communicate to the Foundation. As trustee, I encourage the user community >>>>>> to organize to make public information requests to me.* >>>>>> >>>>>> To me, it looks like he's going to disclose the non-public >>>>>> information, especially as he emphasises that he's an editor of the >>>>>> Signpost and his duty as a journalist will come before his duties as a >>>>>> trustee. He also writes: >>>>>> >>>>>> *I want access to Wikimedia Foundation financial records so that I >>>>>> can analyze them at my university, or otherwise, the WMF can just be >>>>>> direct >>>>>> in saying it does not want to share this info. Right now the WMF's >>>>>> financial reports are incomprehensible to the user community. We need >>>>>> transparency in those reports so that Wikimedians in each country can >>>>>> know >>>>>> what money the Foundation spends on their behalf, and what the >>>>>> development >>>>>> strategy for that country is.* >>>>>> >>>>>> It sounds like he's going to disclose non-public financial >>>>>> information. >>>>>> >>>>>> All people who know Lane well state that he's an honest person who >>>>>> does as he says. As a Wikimedian, I cannot support a candidacy for a >>>>>> person >>>>>> who makes grossly unsupported statements. As a trustee, I cannot >>>>>> support anyone who wishes to disclose non-public information, which >>>>>> is in direct contravention of the trustee's duties and responsibilities. >>>>>> >>>>>> As you can see, my objections to the Lane candidacy have nothing to >>>>>> do with him being a minority or any other potential issue that he >>>>>> mentions >>>>>> in his communications; it's much more mundane. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 6:52 AM L C <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> It would make sense to add the link to the index of >>>>>>> petitions/complaints at >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Objections_to_the_2025_WMF_Board_election_removals >>>>>>> so they are all centralized. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Selected quotes from other letters boycotting the election in >>>>>>> protest. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "The Wikimedia Foundation has long emphasized its commitment to good >>>>>>> governance and transparency, as well as to gender equity. Yet, by >>>>>>> excluding Ravan—the only female candidate in this election—without >>>>>>> any >>>>>>> clear explanation and amid strong indications of political bias, the >>>>>>> Foundation has violated all of these principles." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "We write to you with deep concern and strong objection to the recent >>>>>>> decision to withdraw candidate Ravan Jaafar al-Taie from the ongoing >>>>>>> election process for a seat on the Board of Trustees. This measure, >>>>>>> taken without transparency or public justification, undermines the >>>>>>> legitimacy of the process and contradicts the values of inclusion, >>>>>>> equity, and diversity that the Wikimedia movement has promoted since >>>>>>> its inception and that Strategy 2030 ratifies as guiding principles. >>>>>>> The action is unfair, arbitrary, and sets a dangerous precedent for >>>>>>> democracy and the efforts of female Wikipedians who actively fight >>>>>>> for >>>>>>> inclusion. Ravan is not only a valid candidate, but also the only >>>>>>> woman in this electoral process." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> "There have been two candidates rejected without a credible >>>>>>> explanation. Rejecting either candidate based on “lack of >>>>>>> experience”, >>>>>>> political attacks or dubious conflict of interest have been based on >>>>>>> falsehoods or just incomprehensible. Ravan was the only woman >>>>>>> candidate left in the running and Lane was the only openly queer >>>>>>> candidate remaining in the election. This has been the opposite of >>>>>>> the >>>>>>> previously publicly stated values of the WMF commitment to >>>>>>> representing minority voices and diversity. The Board and Election >>>>>>> Committee stated on Meta that they were aiming for 6 candidates to >>>>>>> vote on, but there are just 4 now remaining, all men, and are less >>>>>>> representative of the volunteer community." >>>>>>> >>>>>>> At a minimum, this wide level of objection from different and >>>>>>> significant parts of the community should result in an immediate >>>>>>> independent investigation or a suspension of the election. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, 9 Oct 2025 at 04:47, Hannah Clover >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Hi, I have written a heartfelt letter for reform at >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2025_WMF_Board_reform_petition. I >>>>>>> encourage everyone across the movement to read, translate, and share >>>>>>> this >>>>>>> message as it is not just an enwiki issue but something that affects us >>>>>>> all. >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > Sincerely, >>>>>>> > Hannah Clover >>>>>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> > Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/Q2I6XYSINHJ2CVVXSPWID4LC7O52ZLCE/ >>>>>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/K4SPN43MOZLWC73ANTMYYKZRBREDTO7Z/ >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>>> guidelines at: >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>>> Public archives at >>>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/VQFNNPWJ2GD5NKD5QH7Y6MSIXG4WNS2S/ >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>> guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> Public archives at >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/OZ24P7GF2V74NBBKC6YZK6LOKTUQGS4S/ >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>>> guidelines at: >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>>> Public archives at >>>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/HOJBCGUEFCQUCUZ2GCL2P5W4VY4IGG4S/ >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/CSIE7QVRXJRLIAX6DSBNJM3GV7VNW7TH/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> >> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/QAOJXF52RNZFGZPDNPQFHGVVZBONZ4XF/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/WZP33FWIHRXI2CKTSQDBTPXWBRL3SGZH/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/H35FDTJDZIEHYHB73FWHJHHPLH6IHWWK/ > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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