Hi, This decision will not be changed.
When a Board makes a decision it ***knows*** the communities will hate and come after them for, it is not taken lightly. You think, debate, and argue a lot before you act. And when you finally do, it is because you have to. You do not do that on a whim. And this is not the first time. We are in a loop, and it feels like we have grown used to it. The same scenario repeats again and again. Trustees change, different backgrounds, beliefs, perspectives, yet the underlying dynamics stay the same. We have a systemic issue that has been with us for years. The Foundation is still perceived as a community body. It is not, and it never was. It’s a US based organisation operating and protecting the websites and the brands. Board elections have always been elections in name only. They are a way for the communities to recommend candidates, not to appoint them. It is long past time we acknowledge that we have built a system with two centers of power, the Foundation and the communities, that do not share that power. This permanent imbalance creates constant tension, wastes time and energy, and ultimately weakens our entire movement. It is time we face that reality together. This latest situation is only another symptom of a much deeper problem, one we have chosen to tolerate for too long. Perhaps we have grown to even love this loop? But I, for one, am tired of it. No one here is doing something wrong; it is the system we built that is wrong. Christophe On Sat, Oct 11, 2025 at 7:07 AM Pete Forsyth <[email protected]> wrote: > Apologies for the second post, but I had missed Stuart Prior's > illuminating post about Ravan J Al-Taie's candidacy. At this particular > moment in history, it seems likely that the denial of her candidacy will be > the one that brings greater damage to the reputation of the Wikimedia > Foundation. > > For those not familiar with the issue of alleged systematic rape on > October 7, I would urge you to read the English Wikipedia article about it: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screams_Without_Words and to consider the > underlying sources (primarily, a podcast produced by the *New York Times* > which > called into question the accuracy of a front page story in the same > publication, and was subsequently suppressed), and in the *Intercept.* > Briefly, > the *Times* drove a story, which two years later remains published, > alleging systematic rape, apparently based solely on the unauthenticated > testimony of parties who had strong, undisclosed political motivations. > > A core argument in the *Jerusalem Post's* case against Ravan rests on the > notion that "*According to the International Holocaust Remembrance > Alliance definition of antisemitism, drawing comparisons of contemporary > Israeli policy to that of the Nazis is a form of antisemitism*." I think > most Wikipedians would agree, denying the comparison of two policy > positions is hardly compatible with the pursuit of free knowledge. > > Above all, I think the greatest possible harm to the Wikimedia Foundation > in this instance would derive from any perception -- whether accurate or > not -- that the Wikimedia Foundation capitulates to external calls to > sanitize an election of specific political views. > > -Pete Forsyth > [[User:Peteforsyth]] > > On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 6:16 AM Stuart Prior via Wikimedia-l < > [email protected]> wrote: > >> Victoria, >> >> As per Chris, the explanation is welcome for its clarity. >> >> However, in the case of Ravan, "the risks for the public reputation of >> WMF” are overriding more things than gender equity here. >> >> My understanding is this decision will be wholly or at least >> substantively in reaction to the Jerusalem Post piece >> <https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-863804> (1) on >> Ravan, and the potential for proliferation of this type of coverage. >> If so, it’s very concerning to see an article that is effectively a >> direct demand that she be removed from contention for the board (citing the >> movement's own UCoC) achieve its goal so easily. >> It could be there are other things I’m not aware of, but that a major >> newspaper didn’t pick them up suggests to me that those listed represent >> the most controversial things anyone can find. >> >> Whether we agree with them or not, the opinions expressed are not >> outliers within the Wikimedia community globally. If they are considered >> disqualifying, it effectively excludes any Wikimedian who’s ever shared or >> “liked" similar social media posts from participating in senior movement >> governance, as they will no doubt receive similar treatment, especially if >> they are from certain parts of the world. >> >> In a sense, this is a logical decision for the an American nonprofit, >> comms-wise, fundraising-wise, even legally, but from the outside it looks >> like an area where WMF's operational, domestic priorities are winning out >> over its wider global responsibilities, increasing other risks in the >> process. >> >> Best >> >> Stuart Prior >> User:Battleofalma >> >> (1) https://www.jpost.com/diaspora/antisemitism/article-863804 >> >> On 9 Oct 2025, at 10:46, Chris Keating <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >> Thanks Victoria >> >> Just as you posted this I was on Meta writing a post (1) asking to know >> what the Board's real reasons were but it seems you have cleared that up >> >> I have been trying to put myself in the Board's shoes over the last few >> days and, for what it's worth, I suspect I might personally have reached >> the same conclusion regarding Lane's candidacy. However I don't believe >> Ravan has said anything that should disqualify her from being on the Board. >> Bluntly, excluding her has done more meaningful damage to the WMF's >> reputation than seating her would have done if she had won the election. >> >> Chris >> >> >> >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wikimedia_Foundation_Board_noticeboard/October_2025_update#Some_more_thoughts. >> .. >> >> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 10:19 AM Victoria Doronina < >> [email protected]> wrote: >> >>> Hello Hannah, >>> >>> I'm writing this as a Wikimedian, relying solely on publicly available >>> information. I'm sorry, but I will not reply to any questions, as the last >>> time I tried, it didn't end well. >>> >>> It may sound counterintuitive, but WMF is sometimes too nice and careful >>> about the reputation of wikimedians and this leaves room for speculation. >>> In this case, the WMF left a lot of room for candidates who didn't pass >>> the preliminary stages of the vetting process to withdraw with grace, but >>> it didn't work, and now we have multiple petitions for the reinstatement of >>> these candidates. >>> >>> Concerning Ravan, future candidates should be more cautious about what >>> they post on social media, as some posts pose significant risks to the >>> WMF's reputation, primarily because the press is particularly vigilant >>> about the WMF board candidates at the moment. I'm supporting women (you may >>> have noticed that I'm a woman too) and LGBTQIA+, but in this instance, I >>> cannot support her candidacy, because the risks for the public reputation >>> of WMF outweigh the risks to gender equity. >>> >>> As for Lane, he >>> >>> * publicly stated in his candidate video (1' in) that WMF is going to >>> replace some of the text in Wikipedia with the text written by AI - *this >>> is not true*, as anyone who has read the WMF AI strategy would know. >>> Wikimedia Foundation elections/2025/Candidates/Lane Rasberry - Meta-Wiki >>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Foundation_elections/2025/Candidates/Lane_Rasberry> >>> >>> * Publicly written in the candidate statement: >>> >>> *I set up a Right to Information >>> <https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Right_to_Information> project on Meta-Wiki >>> because years ago, I wanted information, and I could not find a way to >>> communicate to the Foundation. As trustee, I encourage the user community >>> to organize to make public information requests to me.* >>> >>> To me, it looks like he's going to disclose the non-public information, >>> especially as he emphasises that he's an editor of the Signpost and his >>> duty as a journalist will come before his duties as a trustee. He also >>> writes: >>> >>> *I want access to Wikimedia Foundation financial records so that I can >>> analyze them at my university, or otherwise, the WMF can just be direct in >>> saying it does not want to share this info. Right now the WMF's financial >>> reports are incomprehensible to the user community. We need transparency in >>> those reports so that Wikimedians in each country can know what money the >>> Foundation spends on their behalf, and what the development strategy for >>> that country is.* >>> >>> It sounds like he's going to disclose non-public financial information. >>> >>> All people who know Lane well state that he's an honest person who does >>> as he says. As a Wikimedian, I cannot support a candidacy for a person who >>> makes grossly unsupported statements. As a trustee, I cannot support anyone >>> who wishes to disclose non-public information, which is in direct >>> contravention of the trustee's duties and responsibilities. >>> >>> As you can see, my objections to the Lane candidacy have nothing to do >>> with him being a minority or any other potential issue that he mentions in >>> his communications; it's much more mundane. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2025 at 6:52 AM L C <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> It would make sense to add the link to the index of >>>> petitions/complaints at >>>> >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Objections_to_the_2025_WMF_Board_election_removals >>>> so they are all centralized. >>>> >>>> Selected quotes from other letters boycotting the election in protest. >>>> >>>> "The Wikimedia Foundation has long emphasized its commitment to good >>>> governance and transparency, as well as to gender equity. Yet, by >>>> excluding Ravan—the only female candidate in this election—without any >>>> clear explanation and amid strong indications of political bias, the >>>> Foundation has violated all of these principles." >>>> >>>> "We write to you with deep concern and strong objection to the recent >>>> decision to withdraw candidate Ravan Jaafar al-Taie from the ongoing >>>> election process for a seat on the Board of Trustees. This measure, >>>> taken without transparency or public justification, undermines the >>>> legitimacy of the process and contradicts the values of inclusion, >>>> equity, and diversity that the Wikimedia movement has promoted since >>>> its inception and that Strategy 2030 ratifies as guiding principles. >>>> The action is unfair, arbitrary, and sets a dangerous precedent for >>>> democracy and the efforts of female Wikipedians who actively fight for >>>> inclusion. Ravan is not only a valid candidate, but also the only >>>> woman in this electoral process." >>>> >>>> "There have been two candidates rejected without a credible >>>> explanation. Rejecting either candidate based on “lack of experience”, >>>> political attacks or dubious conflict of interest have been based on >>>> falsehoods or just incomprehensible. Ravan was the only woman >>>> candidate left in the running and Lane was the only openly queer >>>> candidate remaining in the election. This has been the opposite of the >>>> previously publicly stated values of the WMF commitment to >>>> representing minority voices and diversity. The Board and Election >>>> Committee stated on Meta that they were aiming for 6 candidates to >>>> vote on, but there are just 4 now remaining, all men, and are less >>>> representative of the volunteer community." >>>> >>>> At a minimum, this wide level of objection from different and >>>> significant parts of the community should result in an immediate >>>> independent investigation or a suspension of the election. >>>> >>>> On Thu, 9 Oct 2025 at 04:47, Hannah Clover >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> > >>>> > Hi, I have written a heartfelt letter for reform at >>>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/2025_WMF_Board_reform_petition. I >>>> encourage everyone across the movement to read, translate, and share this >>>> message as it is not just an enwiki issue but something that affects us >>>> all. >>>> > >>>> > Sincerely, >>>> > Hannah Clover >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> > Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/Q2I6XYSINHJ2CVVXSPWID4LC7O52ZLCE/ >>>> > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], >>>> guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines >>>> and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>>> Public archives at >>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/K4SPN43MOZLWC73ANTMYYKZRBREDTO7Z/ >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >>> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >>> Public archives at >>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/VQFNNPWJ2GD5NKD5QH7Y6MSIXG4WNS2S/ >>> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/OZ24P7GF2V74NBBKC6YZK6LOKTUQGS4S/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines >> at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and >> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l >> Public archives at >> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/HOJBCGUEFCQUCUZ2GCL2P5W4VY4IGG4S/ >> To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > _______________________________________________ > Wikimedia-l mailing list -- [email protected], guidelines > at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l > Public archives at > https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/[email protected]/message/CSIE7QVRXJRLIAX6DSBNJM3GV7VNW7TH/ > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected]
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