Hello everyone, sorry for being slow to respond to this. Sadly Freedom of Panorama has not yet been added to SA law even though the Copyright Amendment act has been passed by both houses of parliament (twice) and has been waiting to be gazetted into law since 2018. Making it the law waiting the longest for enactment in the Ramaphosa Presidency. So long in fact that the Ramaphosa presidency is in violation of the constitution, been taken to the constitutional court twice, and lost, twice. The saga continues.
So at first glance it appears that our deletionist friends are right. My suggestion would be to get a letter from Heritage Johannesburg and Heritage Western Cape stating that they release the copyright of the plaques into the public domain, thereby allowing us to upload them to Commons. That process is outlined on Wikipedia here <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Contact_us/Licensing> but basically they need to email [[email protected]] with a letter stating that it is allowed. It would be helpful for us to get a copy of it so we can share it with the deletionists. Commons has a helpful template for generating these letters here ( https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Wikimedia_VRT_release_generator). Also, in recognition of the impending enactment of FoP into SA law the Commons community is obliged to tag all South Africa related content that is labeled for deletion for FoP reasons before deletion. This is so the files can be undeleted when FoB is gazetted into law. Hope that helps, sorry I don't yet have better news on this. Regards, Douglas. On Mon, 13 Oct 2025 at 14:00, Michael Graaf <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi all, I've made a feeble effort to substantiate my hunch that Freedom of > Panorama has been updated in SA law since the version cited by the > deletionist, but haven't followed up properly. > > Does anyone here know offhand? > > On Mon, Oct 13, 2025 at 2:04 PM <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > Send WikimediaZA mailing list submissions to > > [email protected] > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe, please visit > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/postorius/lists/wikimediaza.lists.wikimedia.org/ > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > [email protected] > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of WikimediaZA digest..." > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: Deletions of Joburg History (Derek Moore) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2025 06:29:17 +0200 > > From: Derek Moore <[email protected]> > > Subject: [Wikimedia ZA] Re: Deletions of Joburg History > > To: [email protected] > > Message-ID: > > < > > cam33oq4zydxmfp0qqq0k4jvcvqkl5_jsrsql-kzlfbn4ne8...@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > > > Hello Keegan > > > > Thanks for the reply. Good to hear from you. I can’t speak for the > CapeTown > > Heritage Foundation, but I popped into visit Dianne Steele from > > Johannesburg Heritage Foundation. She’s also a Wikipedian and she > confirmed > > that the JHF are very happy with the plaques appearing on commons. She > > worked with @BobbyShabangu, who has also uploaded many of these images > for > > Joburgbedia. She completed the form for three files (that I uploaded) > > indicating they are released. > > > > The text in from the form itself is not perfect. But it should be clear > > enough > > > > I agree to publish the above-mentioned work under the Creative Commons > > Attribution-ShareAlike 4.0 International. > > I acknowledge that by doing so I grant anyone the right to use the work, > > even in a commercial product or otherwise, and to modify it according to > > their needs, provided that they abide by the terms of the license and any > > other applicable laws. > > I am aware that this agreement is not limited to Wikipedia or related > > sites. > > I am aware that the copyright holder always retains ownership of the > > copyright as well as the right to be attributed in accordance with the > > license chosen. Modifications others make to the work will not be claimed > > to have been made by the copyright holder. > > I acknowledge that I cannot withdraw this agreement, and that the content > > may or may not be kept permanently on a Wikimedia project. > > > > There are a number of comments on the page itself. (I sound rather > > shrill). > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Category:Blue_plaques_in_Cape_Town?markasread=76881144&markasreadwiki=commonswiki#Files_in_Category:Blue_plaques_in_Cape_Town > > > > Be great to have your voice heard.. > > > > Best > > Derek > > > > On Fri, 10 Oct 2025 at 16:24, Keegan Leech <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > Thanks for raising this Derek. > > > > > > A quick question on copyright. Does anyone know what the > > Johannesburg/Cape > > > Town Heritage Foundations would have to do to allow for pictures of the > > > plaques to be used on Wikimedia? Is it possible for them to release > some > > > statement allowing for the use of these images without releasing their > > > copyright over the text on the plaques? I'm sure it would be relatively > > > easy to contact the J/CTHF and request a declaration from them. > > Something > > > posted on their websites would be fine. > > > > > > Additionally, it seems as though not all of the plaques were erected by > > > these two foundations, and so there may be more copyright holders here. > > > (E.g. this plaque seems to have been posted by the Geological Society > of > > > South Africa > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:GSSA_W4A_Siltstone.jpg > > > ) Can anyone can confirm who the copyright owners are? > > > > > > Unfortunately, I do believe that the text of these plaques would be > > > protected by copyright as artistic works (see copyright act: > > > https://www.saflii.org/za/legis/consol_act/ca1978133/ ). Just being > > > informational does not exempt them any more than it would exempt, say, > a > > > history book. However, there are cases in which copyrighted works or > > > excerpts thereof, may appear on Wikipedia. So these images could > > > theoretically be uploaded to individual Wikipedia pages, if clearly > > > labelled as including copyrighted material. They should probably not be > > on > > > Commons under creative commons licenses (as many of them are) unless > the > > > JHF or whoever the copyright holders may be have released them from > > > copyright. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Keegan > > > > > > On Fri, 10 Oct 2025 at 09:58, Derek Moore <[email protected]> > wrote: > > > > > > > Dear fellow Wikipedians. > > > > > > > > This is an odd issue, and I would appreciate your advice and support. > > > > Blue Plaques are a wonderful way to remember South African Heritage. > > Now > > > > for some reason, a Wikipedian in Canada (I think) has initiated a > big > > > > deletion request of Blue plaques both in Cape Town and Johannesburg. > > See > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Category:Blue_plaques_in_Johannesburg > > > > > > > > > > > > > > https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Files_in_Category:Blue_plaques_in_Cape_Town > > > > > > > > It would be good if you could make your voices heard in the > discussion > > > and > > > > contest the deletion > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Kind Regards > > > > Derek > > > > > > > > *Derek Moore* (He/Him) | Lead Consultant for Weblearning > > > > > > > > *a: *Weblearning | 21 Kew Road, Richmond, 2092 | South Africa > > > > *w:* www.weblearning.co.za <http://www.weblearning.co.za/> *m:* + 27 > > 72 > > > > 776 > > > > 1001 > > > > *h: Mon, Thu, Fri: *8:30-5:00 (GMT+2) *Tue, Wed:* 9:00-5:00 (GMT) > > > > > > > > You may get emails from me outside of normal working hours. Please do > > not > > > > feel any pressure to respond outside of your own working pattern. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > WikimediaZA mailing list -- [email protected] > > > > To unsubscribe send an email to > [email protected] > > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to %(real_name)s-unsubscribe@ > > %(host_name)s > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > WikimediaZA mailing list -- [email protected] > > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to %(real_name)s-unsubscribe@ > %(host_name)s > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > WikimediaZA mailing list -- [email protected] > > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of WikimediaZA Digest, Vol 174, Issue 3 > > ******************************************* > > > > > -- > Michael Graaf, M.Phil (UCT) > > Researcher, Editor & > Community Informatics Practitioner; > Interim General Secretary, Yetu Infotech Collective > Mob +27795487242 > WhatsApp/ Telegram/ Signal +27647754342 > Migrating to graaf.michael.za[at]proton.me > _______________________________________________ > WikimediaZA mailing list -- [email protected] > To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe, send an email to %(real_name)s-unsubscribe@%(host_name)s -- Douglas Ian Scott Mobile number: +44 7471 608592 2nd mobile number: +27 79 515 8727 _______________________________________________ WikimediaZA mailing list -- [email protected] To unsubscribe send an email to [email protected] To unsubscribe, send an email to %(real_name)s-unsubscribe@%(host_name)s
