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______________________________________________________________ > Od: [email protected] > Komu: [email protected] > Datum: 31.12.2008 06:33 > Předmět: Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 65, Issue 40 > >Send Wikitech-l mailing list submissions to > [email protected] > >To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l >or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > [email protected] > >You can reach the person managing the list at > [email protected] > >When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >than "Re: Contents of Wikitech-l digest..." > > >Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Subpage titles (Remember the dot) > 2. Re: Anchors haven't id attribute (Platonides) > 3. Re: Separating section anchors from other IDs (was: Anchors > haven't id attribute) (Charlotte Webb) > 4. Re: Subpage titles (Aryeh Gregor) > 5. Re: Subpage titles (Platonides) > 6. Re: Separating section anchors from other IDs (was: Anchors > haven't id attribute) (Aryeh Gregor) > 7. Re: Subpage titles (Aryeh Gregor) > 8. Re: Subpage titles (Michael J. Walsh) > 9. Re: Subpage titles (Aryeh Gregor) > 10. Re: Subpage titles (Ilmari Karonen) > 11. Re: Subpage titles (Daniel Friesen) > > >---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 23:45:55 -0700 >From: "Remember the dot" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles >To: "Wikimedia developers" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: > <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 8:31 PM, Soxred93 <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hopefully, if the new DISPLAYTITLE functionality goes into effect, >> the effect of this can be done. > > >What new DISPLAYTITLE functionality? Is this separate from >https://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12998 ? > >-- >Remember the dot >http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Remember_the_dot > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 2 >Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:23:09 +0100 >From: Platonides <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Anchors haven't id attribute >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >Aryeh Gregor wrote: >>> the idea of "broken code must render anyway" >>> is riped. It must die, a painfull dead, because is the father and >>> mother of the tag soup, that is more vile than the Borg and Microsoft >>> *combined* >> >> Browser vendors are not willing to remove support for it, because it >> would break old websites. HTML5 says broken code is invalid, but aims >> to standardize in great detail how browsers should render it anyway, >> instead of demanding (impractically) that they throw up their arms and >> die like XHTML insists on. A "feature" of XHTML that practically >> everyone skips in practice by serving it as text/html. > >Even if you want to use it, "some browsers" don't support it so you end >with ugly user-agent sniffing hacks. > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 3 >Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:17:17 -0600 >From: "Charlotte Webb" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Separating section anchors from other IDs > (was: Anchors haven't id attribute) >To: "Wikimedia developers" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: > <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >On 12/28/08, Aryeh Gregor <[email protected]> wrote: >> Now, how about figuring out how to get manually-specified id's like >> <span id="foo"> to be unique? :) > >Could just number them sequentially like we do the section headings. > >...or try to convince the creators of id="stub" templates that there's >something wrong with giving them all the same id (good luck with that, >they wouldn't listen to me). > >?C.W. > >------------------------------ > >Message: 4 >Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 09:30:24 -0500 >From: "Aryeh Gregor" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles >To: "Wikimedia developers" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: > <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 9:59 PM, K. Peachey <[email protected]> wrote: >> Maybe have a little button in the right/opposite corner that you click >> and uses js magic to copy it to the clipboard maybe? > >That's just not intuitive. People are going to try copying it and it >won't work. > >On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Daniel Friesen <[email protected]> wrote: >> Traditionally in cases where the title does not actually depict the >> title itself properly I believe the idea has been to add some sort of >> "Full title: ..." to the subtitle. > >This is ugly and confusing, and people still are going to try copying >it directly and it won't work. > >I think that 301ing pages with " ? " in their title to pages with "/" >is the best way here, for Wikisource and other projects that want >prettier subpage display for deeply nested subpages (probably not for >Wikipedia, although you can make an argument for consistency). > >------------------------------ > >Message: 5 >Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 22:33:10 +0100 >From: Platonides <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >Aryeh Gregor wrote: >> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 9:59 PM, K. Peachey <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Maybe have a little button in the right/opposite corner that you click >>> and uses js magic to copy it to the clipboard maybe? >> >> That's just not intuitive. People are going to try copying it and it >> won't work. >> >> On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 11:16 PM, Daniel Friesen <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> Traditionally in cases where the title does not actually depict the >>> title itself properly I believe the idea has been to add some sort of >>> "Full title: ..." to the subtitle. >> >> This is ugly and confusing, and people still are going to try copying >> it directly and it won't work. >> >> I think that 301ing pages with " ? " in their title to pages with "/" >> is the best way here, for Wikisource and other projects that want >> prettier subpage display for deeply nested subpages (probably not for >> Wikipedia, although you can make an argument for consistency). > >What about providing " ? " as a image with alt="/" ? > > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 6 >Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:09:52 -0500 >From: "Aryeh Gregor" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Separating section anchors from other IDs > (was: Anchors haven't id attribute) >To: "Wikimedia developers" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: > <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Charlotte Webb ><[email protected]> wrote: >> Could just number them sequentially like we do the section headings. > >Alternatively, we could strip them and add an HTML comment -- we need >to have some id for the extra section headings, because we need to >link to them automatically, but that seems to be of dubious benefit >for user-supplied id's. If they're using them for anything, their use >(e.g., CSS rule, getElementById()) will almost certainly fail if we >modify the id in any way, so no point in keeping it at all. > >> ...or try to convince the creators of id="stub" templates that there's >> something wrong with giving them all the same id (good luck with that, >> they wouldn't listen to me). > >Well, if we wanted to, telling them "in one week it will stop working" >should do it. Or just having a sysop there do it unilaterally with >that as edit summary. I don't know if we want to, though. It would >be disruptive for questionable benefit. As I said, if we do this we'd >have to do a dry run for a while and only log conflicts, and deal with >all the major problem-causers before enabling it for real. > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 7 >Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 17:13:40 -0500 >From: "Aryeh Gregor" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles >To: "Wikimedia developers" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: > <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Platonides <[email protected]> wrote: >> What about providing " ? " as a image with alt="/" ? > >1) That's just horribly ugly when the other solution would be simple enough. > >2) Can we rely on the fact that images are copy-pasted as their alt >text in all browsers? > >------------------------------ > >Message: 8 >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 01:01:19 +0000 >From: "Michael J. Walsh" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles >To: Wikimedia developers <[email protected]> >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > >On 30 Dec 2008, at 22:13, Aryeh Gregor wrote: > >> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 4:33 PM, Platonides <[email protected]> >> wrote: >>> What about providing " ? " as a image with alt="/" ? >> >> 1) That's just horribly ugly when the other solution would be >> simple enough. >> >> 2) Can we rely on the fact that images are copy-pasted as their alt >> text in all browsers > >What about programming the software to replace " ? " in links with >"/" before submitting to the database or previewing the page. > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 9 >Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 20:46:33 -0500 >From: "Aryeh Gregor" <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles >To: "Wikimedia developers" <[email protected]> >Message-ID: > <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > >On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Michael J. Walsh ><[email protected]> wrote: >> What about programming the software to replace " ? " in links with >> "/" before submitting to the database or previewing the page. > >More pre-save transforms? We should probably be reducing the number, >not increasing them. This one has more merit than pipe tricks, >though. It's a possibility. It would probably be simpler to do the >301, though. > >------------------------------ > >Message: 10 >Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 05:03:18 +0200 >From: Ilmari Karonen <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles >To: Wikimedia developers <[email protected]> >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > >Aryeh Gregor wrote: >> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Michael J. Walsh >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> What about programming the software to replace " ? " in links with >>> "/" before submitting to the database or previewing the page. >> >> More pre-save transforms? We should probably be reducing the number, >> not increasing them. This one has more merit than pipe tricks, >> though. It's a possibility. It would probably be simpler to do the >> 301, though. > >If not a PST, it would pretty much have to be done in title >normalization. For one thing, we'd need it for link existence checks. > >But I have a simpler suggestion: why not display the title just like we >do now, but use CSS to add some padding around the slashes and to render >everything up to the last slash in smaller font on a separate line? >Should be easy enough to do with just a couple of simple <span> tags, >and be perfectly cut-and-pasteable. Granted, it means sticking with "/" >as the delimiter instead of "?", but I wouldn't think that'd be a >blocking issue. > >-- >Ilmari Karonen > > > >------------------------------ > >Message: 11 >Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 21:32:28 -0800 >From: Daniel Friesen <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [Wikitech-l] Subpage titles >To: [email protected] >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > >Back on the image note..... Why alt? it doesn't have to be alt, a >background image should be suitable. >Break up a title by / wrap each section in a span and place proper >padding on them -- ;) if you want to do something real nice, turn >everything but the last portion into a link -- and replace every / by a >span containing / with display: none; and followed by an empty span with >a background image. > >~Daniel Friesen (Dantman, Nadir-Seen-Fire) >~Profile/Portfolio: http://nadir-seen-fire.com >-The Nadir-Point Group (http://nadir-point.com) >--It's Wiki-Tools subgroup (http://wiki-tools.com) >--The ElectronicMe project (http://electronic-me.org) >-Wikia ACG on Wikia.com (http://wikia.com/wiki/Wikia_ACG) >--Animepedia (http://anime.wikia.com) >--Narutopedia (http://naruto.wikia.com) > > > >Ilmari Karonen wrote: >> Aryeh Gregor wrote: >> >>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Michael J. Walsh >>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> What about programming the software to replace " ? " in links with >>>> "/" before submitting to the database or previewing the page. >>>> >>> More pre-save transforms? We should probably be reducing the number, >>> not increasing them. This one has more merit than pipe tricks, >>> though. It's a possibility. It would probably be simpler to do the >>> 301, though. >>> >> >> If not a PST, it would pretty much have to be done in title >> normalization. For one thing, we'd need it for link existence checks. >> >> But I have a simpler suggestion: why not display the title just like we >> do now, but use CSS to add some padding around the slashes and to render >> everything up to the last slash in smaller font on a separate line? >> Should be easy enough to do with just a couple of simple <span> tags, >> and be perfectly cut-and-pasteable. Granted, it means sticking with "/" >> as the delimiter instead of "?", but I wouldn't think that'd be a >> blocking issue. >> >> > > > > >------------------------------ > >_______________________________________________ >Wikitech-l mailing list >[email protected] >https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l > > >End of Wikitech-l Digest, Vol 65, Issue 40 >****************************************** > _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
