On 11/12/11 12:14 PM, bawolff wrote: >> Message: 9 >> Date: Sat, 12 Nov 2011 09:11:08 -0500 >> From: William Allen Simpson<[email protected]> >> Subject: [Wikitech-l] Overzealous Commons deletionists >> To: Wikimedia developers<[email protected]> >> Cc: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List >> <[email protected]>, [email protected] >> Message-ID:<[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >> >> I've noticed a problem with overzealous deletionists on Commons. While >> this may be something of a legal and political issue, it's also >> operational and affects multiple *[m,p]edias at the same time. >> > [snip] >> >> There are a number of obvious technical issues. YouTube and others >> have had to handle this, it's time for us. >> >> 1) DMCA doesn't require a takedown until there's been a complaint. We >> really shouldn't allow deletion until there's been an actual complaint. >> We need technical means for recording official notices and appeals. >> Informal opinions of ill-informed volunteers aren't helpful. > > OTRS? This seems like a social (or potentially a legal) issue not a > technical one. > Perhaps you could be more explicit. How does the unmentioned, unreferenced, and barely documented OTRS handle the technical process of recording formal complaints and appeals, and managing their handling?
Especially as OTRS specifically states it's for granting permission, not requesting deletion. What "social" process does that? The "social" process we have now for deletion isn't working. I'm thinking more like bugzilla. >> 2) Fast scripting and insufficient notice lead to flapping of images, >> and confusion by the owners of the documents (and the editors of >> articles, as 2 days is much *much* too short for most of us). We need >> something to enforce review times. > > Again a social issue > You plan some kind of social monitoring? What extra volunteer (and boring) time are you offering, personally? Sure, somebody could constantly monitor recent updates, and try to notice that some administrator is scripting and block them. But in my experience, the recent updates list scrolls by too fast to notice that each deletion request (or deletion) is happening at a rate that makes no sense. It's still only a few per minute, lost in the noise. Why not use technical means instead? >> 3) Folks in other industries aren't monitoring Talk pages and have no >> idea or sufficient notice that their photos are being deleted. The >> Talk mechanism is really not a good method for anybody other than very >> active wikipedians. We need better email and other social notices. > > Enable enotif for talk page messages by default? > Perhaps. But a weekly bundle won't be fast enough, and a single message that doesn't repeat again until after the user has checked the Talk for previous messages won't handle urgency or repeats. So we'd have to add a special flag for deletion notices. >> 4) We really don't have a method to "prove" that a username is actually >> under control of the public figure. Hard to do. Needs discussion. > > Again a social issue. No amount of technical magic will be able to > solve that issue. > We think of such technical solutions all the time in cryptology. But none as simple and easy as sending SMS asking to call the Foundation Designated Agent.... Reminder, in this case the administrator doesn't believe that the hot lead guitarist for Cee Lo Green would create a user page and upload her own picture. And I'd asked her to create her own page and upload her own picture *because* it would be better than me doing it. It fits the "I, the copyright holder of this work, ..." He compared her to Madonna. Basically, nothing will convince this administrator. The administrator has to be taken out of the loop. We need technical means to handle that message. >> 5) We probably could use some kind of comparison utility to help >> confirm/deny a photo or article is derived from another source. > > That could certainly be a technical challenge, and not a trivial one. > However at the end of the day we can just get a human to compare. > Wow, you really have a lot of extra time on your hands.... _______________________________________________ Wikitech-l mailing list [email protected] https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
