On 13 August 2015 at 17:37, Pine W <[email protected]> wrote:
> Yes, and it may be possible to have enough social support for netiquette
> without resorting to written policies and enforcement procedures. I'd like
> to think that this is true, but given examples about problematic activities
> like personal attacks, I'm not sure. Is informal social pressure combined
> with occasional admin or IRC op action enough to deal with those
> situations, or do we need something more formal?
Well, let's see. "informal social pressure" is the most we have, and
we're here having a discussion about something stronger that has
involved, so far, multiple anecdotes about the technical community
treating people poorly.
So to answer your question: no, it is not enough
Let me reiterate that demanding people who have been hurt by our
existing system justify a need to change it, not once, not twice, but
over and over with duplicated questions of exactly this form ("I mean,
maybe things will work if we don't bother writing it down"), sometimes
not just multiple times in a thread but multiple times /from the same
person/, is itself a toxic behavioural pattern.
>
> Pine
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2015 at 2:34 PM, Vi to <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> But as a collaborative project a decent amount of netiquette is definitely
>> needed.
>>
>>
>> Vito
>>
>> 2015-08-13 23:30 GMT+02:00 rupert THURNER <[email protected]>:
>>
>> > On Aug 13, 2015 10:16 PM, "Oliver Keyes" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > > On 13 August 2015 at 16:10, Antoine Musso <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > > Le 07/08/2015 02:17, Matthew Flaschen a écrit :
>> > > >> We're in the process of developing a code of conduct for technical
>> > > >> spaces. This will be binding, and apply to all Wikimedia-related
>> > > >> technical spaces (including but not limited to MediaWiki.org,
>> > > >> Phabricator, Gerrit, technical IRC channels, and Etherpad).
>> > > >>
>> > > >> Please participate at
>> > > >>
>> >
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Code_of_conduct_for_technical_spaces/Draft
>> > .
>> > > >> Suggestions are welcome here or at
>> > > >>
>> >
>> >
>> https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Talk:Code_of_conduct_for_technical_spaces/Draft
>> > > >> .
>> > > >
>> > > > Hello Matt,
>> > > >
>> > > > It seems the code of conduct is fairly similar to the friendly space
>> > > > policy. Though the later was meant for conferences, it can probably
>> be
>> > > > amended to be applied to cyberspace interactions.
>> > > >
>> > > > https://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Friendly_space_policy
>> > > >
>> > > > Do we have any examples of unfriendly behaviour that occurred
>> recently?
>> > > >
>> > >
>> > > The thread you are replying to contains both examples of unfriendly
>> > > behaviour in a technical context and discussion over the direct
>> > > applicability of the friendly spaces policy; reviewing it may be a
>> > > good idea.
>> >
>> > Oliver, I must be a little blind but I do not see examples of unfriendly
>> > behaviour in this thread.
>> >
>> > In general, Matt, I do experience that the wikimedia movement is
>> > criticized having too many rules and policies. Add another one does not
>> > help. At the end of the day your target group is code contributors, not
>> > policy readers. If somebody does not behave and not contribute, the
>> person
>> > is easily shut up. If somebody contributes a lot, some diplomacy is
>> > required. What you do here is, imho, an example of an organization busy
>> > with itself. I won't be angry if you stop this thread and delete the wiki
>> > page. Let me add, I really appreciate and find very valuable all the
>> other
>> > technical contributions and discussions. And Matt, of course I appreciate
>> > that you know what you are talking about beeing software and Wikipedia
>> > content contributor.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Rupert
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > [email protected]
>> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikitech-l
>> >
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--
Oliver Keyes
Count Logula
Wikimedia Foundation
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