[Winona Online Democracy] Greg,
Great points. One clarification though. Progress and growth are also two very different things. It's another example of two concepts that people often assume are one in the same or connected. They are very different and not connected. I'm all for progress but not growth simply for growth's sake. Dwayne Voegeli June 24, 2004 ------- > >[Winona Online Democracy] > >Thinking out loud. > >With annexation and development one would think we would see a population >increase. Winona has expanded within and beyond its limits and yet the >population remains pretty much stagnant. The (Build it and they will come) >philosophy hasn't filled our schools, attracted any significant employers or >increased our population. How does a City progress beyond a >bedroom/retirement/student rental community? What does a City do with its >core housing as citizens flock to the new lots leaving the old/undesirable >housing stock behind? What is the formula for housing units vs. >population? How is it that we expand our boundaries without expanding our >population? > >Greg >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Dick Gaffron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: "Phil Carlson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Winona Online Democracy" ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 10:27 AM >Subject: Re: [Winona] Traffic, annexation, etc. > > >> [Winona Online Democracy] >> >> Just a quick reply from a rural community. Speaking as Mayor of >> Rollingstone and for our council, we have been trying to encourage >> development around our community. Along with our own Planning commission, >> we have developed template agreements and explored many options such as >> SEMCHRRA, SEMCAC, the Greater Minnesota housing fund and HRA. We have had >> some developments come close to being done . The housing agencies use >> smaller lots to build affordable housing. St. Charles, Elgin and Lake >City >> are prime examples of those programs in action. >> The City Of Rollingstone just added FHA sewer capacity to serve at >> least double the homes we have now. We also have municipal water and >every >> other infrastructure the large Cities have. In working with some land >> owners, we have tried looking at TIF districts, tax abatement and other >> methods to help developers become successful. We have used models from our >> neighboring communities for development ideas. It all finally boils down >to >> the land owner either not wanting to sell his land or asking a small >fortune >> for it. We have heard of land owners asking anywhere from $8,000 to >$30,000 >> per acre. That's before infrastructure or annexation. Depending on lot >> size, this can be a fairly high risk for the developer. >> There have been a few land owners who expressed a desire to develop >the >> land themselves. As I'm sure Phil would point out, that without some >> expertise it is very difficult to make money in the beginning and it can >be >> a long wait until the cash flow becomes positive. It is also interesting >to >> point out that some of the rules have changed. A proposed development >that >> we saw a few years ago for 100+ lots would probably be much smaller >because >> of run off water restrictions. In the past the water would run into a >> creek. That can't happen anymore. >> My point is that there are many factors involved in development and >> growth. We would love to have a major development here and our City >> Government would support it. We have one of the newest schools in the >> district and we need students to fill it. Also traffic really isn't a >> problem yet. We can get to Winona in 10-15 minutes. Try that in the Twin >> Cities. Dick Gaffron >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Phil Carlson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "Winona Online Democracy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 9:28 AM >> Subject: RE: [Winona] Traffic, annexation, etc. >> >> >> > [Winona Online Democracy] >> > >> > Dwayne and Paul raise great questions. To Paul's comment on the price >of >> > land - he is absolutely right that land prices are going out of sight, >in >> > the Twin Cities and elsewhere. But those prices are simply following >> supply >> > and demand. Many people want to live close to the Cities (choices!) and >> so >> > home lots around the metropolitan area are in high demand. If the >supply >> is >> > low, prices go up. To a point I've made several times in several ways, >if >> > more lots are created on less land (higher density) then we can provide >a >> > greater supply of lots, keeping prices lower, and keeping more farmland, >> > forest, or prairie untouched. Part of the problem in the Twin Cities >has >> > been the unreasonable squeeze on the supply of sewered lots created by >the >> > Metropolitan Council's control of the MUSA line (the line within which >> urban >> > services can be extended). That is one of the reasons we see growth >> beyond >> > the seven-county area into the eleven and thirteen "collar" counties, >> > including some in Wisconsin. In Winona there is no intermediate Met >> Council >> > that controls where urban services go, only the City and the townships >> doing >> > their orderly annexation dance together. >> > >> > Dwayne however hits the jackpot with his point No. 5 - population growth >> > generally. The population of the State, nation, and world are growing >and >> > there needs to be a place to put these people. Solving this problem >> > directly will affect many, many others. If Dwayne or others have >> solutions, >> > let's get going on it. Until then, what are we going to do with the >> people >> > who are here now, who will be here in five years, ten years, and fifty >> > years, until this overarching problem is really solved (will it ever be >> > solved)? I like the teen/adult analogy. But I think that simply saying >> you >> > don't believe in growth philosophically, while ignoring the thousands >and >> > millions of new people that will come every year and every decade, is >more >> a >> > teen view than a realistic adult view. I should have been more precise >in >> > my earlier posts: growth will happen, unless and until we stop >population >> > growth on the whole. >> > >> > Phil Carlson, Minneapolis >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >> > All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >> > No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >> > To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >> > http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >> > Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >> > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> > If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact >> page at >> > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >> All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >> No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >> To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >> http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >> Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >> mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact >page at >> http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org >> > > >_______________________________________________ >This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy >All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. >No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. >To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit >http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona >Any problems or suggestions can be directed to >mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org > ------------ Dwayne Voegeli Winona County Commissioner, District #2 (507) 453-9012 [EMAIL PROTECTED] 359 Pleasant Hill Dr. Winona, MN 55987 ------------ _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
