[Winona Online Democracy] I apologize for responding to the McDonald's Coffee Case analogy. The facts of that case are that McDonald's had had over 700 instances of people suffering more minor burns from its hot coffee. The problem seemed to stem from combining a drive thru window and serving hot coffee to a patron in a car. The plaintiff in that case was a bit elderly. She took the coffee, which had a cover on it and drove to a parking spot and then attempted to open the coffee container by holding the base between her legs and using her hands to remove the cover. In doing so the coffee spilled into her groin area causing severe burns. She needed at least 5 plastic surgeries to partially heal from the severe burns. Her claim was that McDonalds should have realized the problem (due to 700 episodes in the past) and should have done something to prevent unknowing drive thru patrons from accidentally injuring themselves. The damages were primarily punitive damages which are awarded by a jury when the conclude that the conduct of a party is grossly negligent, intentionally disregarding the safety of others etc. The basic case for damages for the cost of surgery, pain and suffering required a lesser standard of proof - negligence. Negligence is defined as a failure to use due care under the circumstances. I would suggest to all that the jury was made up of ordinary citizens chosen from a jury pool in the State of Alabama. (I do not know the county). In my experience it is difficult to convince any jury that there is merit to a meritless case. The jury heard all the evidence and reached a conclusion. The result had to be with at least a 5/6 majority of the jurors. The case had merit, and the plaintiff deserved to put it to a jury. The strongest evidence against McDonalds was its disregard for the obvious problems that were at hand with serving extremely hot coffee to people going through a drive up window.
I could go on, but I just wanted WOD to know that the real facts are considerably different than what is generally bandied about in the press etc. There are meritless cases, but almost all are dismissed by the trial court without getting to a jury. As a former judge I heard occasionally meritless arguments, motions, and evidence during my experience. I also had 30 years of experience trying personal injury cases before going on the bench. I could go on, but I'll leave it at that. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Keith Nelson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 14:13 Subject: [Winona] FW: annexation [Winona Online Democracy] -----Original Message----- From: Keith Nelson Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 2:13 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; [EMAIL PROTECTED] org (E-mail) Subject: RE: annexation Perhaps it is best that you express your frustrations or concerns with this property owner or the next or the one across the road. One of them will develop their property into something other than what it is now. Obviously if you enjoy the country and the natural areas that is not a positive change. It is difficult to find a place to live that guarantees no change around you. The City is answering a request and offering to provide a service as desired by a property owner. Why does that make the City the target? It reminds me a little of the mindset of suing McDonalds when the lady spilled her hot coffee on her self. Is McDonalds guilty because they sold the hot coffee? Is the city guilty because we sell the water? I still contend that this discussion centers around not wanting change. For many, this could be viewed as a positive change. You obviously do not view it that way. Homebuilders, banks, lumber yards, retail outlets, industries trying to recruit workers all could view this development as very good. Even your neighbors may enjoy an additional area to walk and ride bike with out getting out on the highway. Different perspectives, this time with out a clear right or wrong. Keith Nelson -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 12:57 PM To: Keith Nelson Subject: Re: annexation Keith, I think you are asking some questions that get at some of the disagreements that are going on. The city certainly sees it one way and the township another. Question 1 I believe it should be necessary for city to show a need for annexation. This land is currently (for lack of better word) owned by the Township. The Township currently recieves the tax base from it. A Township has very different guidelines in regard to density. Most of the people who live there like living under a Township and not a City. This comes down to a preference of living style and a persons conscious decision to purchase property in the area they prefer to live. Before taxes are taken away from a Township, before life style changes are forced on others, before high density is allowed in an area that has been traditionally low density, before increased taxes are forced on residents, before increased infrastructures are put in place there should be reasonable support to do that. I belive that the city thinks that this is just about sewer and water and it goes beyond that. 2. The financial risk I am no longer going to dispute in this forum. I do not however like once again that it is implyed that non-residents of the city of Winona should not be concerned. Pitting residents of the city against non-residents of this city are only setting up barriers and communication breakdowns. It is pitting "our community" against each other. I may not live in Winona City Limits, but once again, I will say this, I work in the city of Winona, I also own a business smack downtown in the city of Winona, I school my children in the city of Winona. I do endless hours of volunteer time for organizations of the city of Winona, I pay State taxes that in part support the City of Winona, I support the retail and service business of Winona by spending my dollars here. To say that I should not concern myself on how the city spends it's money and how the city develops seems pretty silly to me. 3. Once again I will say that I am not against change, just show me it is necessary if there is not a current problem such as population explosion, lack of city land, no other alternatives for a developer. Just let me know this. I will probably agree with you. Janice Turek Quoting Keith Nelson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > A simple question for an emotional issue: > > Why do you think it is necessary for the City to show the township a need for > annexation? The financial risk of land development is primarily on the > landowner. The landowner will have to show the need to their bank. That > information is between the bank and the landowner. > > The financial risk to the City is the cost of bringing water and sewer > service to the site. The City Council is answerable to City residents for > that risk. That risk should not be the concern of non residents. > > Most water and sewer projects are a risk at some level. Proper engineering > requires us to oversize for possible growth. Will the predicted growth > always happen? Perhaps not, but it is always better than building a utility > system too small and then having to rebuild. In the case of running water > and sewer to the Phillips property, preliminary information shows that it may > be a very good investment, over some unknown length of time. Our financial > auditors tell the City Council and staff to look for good investments. We're > recommended to spend money on projects that will bring a good return for the > residents of the City. Sometimes that return is financial sometimes social. > A sales tax to dredge the lake and create a commercial/industrial area was a > good risk that will bring a great financial return to the City and it's > residents. > > The issues in this discussion isn't really "need" but rather "change." > Change is always hard, particularly if it is someone else causing it and not > yourself. > > Keith Nelson > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2004 10:52 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [Winona] If I were Queen for the Day > > > [Winona Online Democracy] > > > If I were Queen for the Day and had the ability to set the tone for > annexation > issues this is what it would be. > > 1. First, I would ask for the city to produce statistics that support the > need > for a Township land to become a city domain. The terms of "need" vs "desire > would be clearly and logically stated. > > 2. Second, when those statistic were gathered, I would bring City, County > and > all Townships involved to the table to talk about these. > > 3. I would appoint a fair and honest mediator who has had no prior biases > or > involvement in the city or township. This person would have to be willing > to > act in the best interest of growth trends and need. > > 4. I would ask that all those coming to the table act civily and put aside > any > personal agendas and past issues on this subject. If they are not able to > do > this, I would ask them to remove themselves or remove them as this became > apparant. I would then appoint this committee or "governing body" to look > at > all requests for annextions, now and in the future. This group would > consistently work as a "team" to resolve the annexation requests. > > 5. Based on the findings, I would ask that an orderly plan be put in place > for > annexation of Townships. This orderly plan would include a guideline > related > to no "Balloon and String and Leapfrogging" Orderly annexation rules would > include property needing to be adjacent to city limits. The plan would also > include better guidelines on lot size based on where the development is > going. > For example placing 100 foot lots in a rural setting is not in a rural > settings > favor but it may be in a differnt location. > > 6. Prior to moving into an other "annexable" area, the latest developed > area > would need to have commitments completed such as, curb and gutter, traffic > solutions, and infra-structures that support the completion of that area. > > 7. A request for annexation would go to this "governing" body, which would > look > at the benefits and need from all sides, which would enable "biased" > decisions > to not take place. A request for annexation would be considered from all > parties involved and representing all populations. > > Oh to be Queen for the Day.... > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. > > _______________________________________________ > This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy > All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. > No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. > To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit > http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona > Any problems or suggestions can be directed to > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page > at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org > ---------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
