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Dwayne asked other's opinions on this subject so here are mine. I've tried to go along with Dwayne's questions/comments.
This entire topic reminds me of the lyrics of a song "the times they are a changing". .
I think you could replace the word "growth" with the word "change" in Dwayne's post. Winona has had a difficult time with change. I think the majority would agree with me. I agree that change for the sake of change is a poor idea. It only makes people question the change, and if it accomplishes nothing it only angers those that had to change. When people ask about Winona I often tell people Winona is like stepping back in time. To about the 1970's. We are now grappling with an issue that other communities dealt with years and years ago.
I would like to know why Winona hasn't changed or grown compared to other communities? We have been told that Winona can't grow because of the bluffs and the river. Nonsense. Growth can happen and it has happened, but slowly. Why haven't businesses come to Winona?
Winona added 70 acres of land with the dredging of the lake. Yes, the land was already in the city limits and was intended for commercial and industrial "growth" but it is now useful for building. We could go into this subject and talk about what was sold to the community, but I think that horse has already been beaten to death. If we add industrial and retail space where are all the people suppose to live that will move to Winona? Will there be affordable housing options for people moving to Winona? Should we tell businesses they are welcome but don't build any homes?
Could some of WAPS current financial problems be traced back to the lack of growth or change in Winona? I don't know and that is why I'm asking. Dwayne stated that Winona hasn't grown much in the last 25 years. I would bet there has been little growth in the last 100 years. Yes, I do realize there are more charter schools and the enrollment in private schools is on the rise. Why is this so? Could it be that the WAPS has failed to see the need for different learning environments that can be offered by different schools? Could it be that WAPS has failed to change with the times? If WAPS would have offered magnet schools or different learning environments would this have changed the current situation that we are in? If Winona had grown over the past 100 years would the population of school aged children be different than now? Would the median age of a Winonan be lower than 28.8 years old?
According to the 2000 census less than 4% of all the housing units in Winona are empty. The figure for the 1990 census is about the same. Many posts on WOD have talked about the need for affordable housing units. How many houses in the town of Wilson's Springbook subdivision are affordable to the average income person? By the way the average Winona income for 2000 was roughly $33,000. What is the average price of a home in Springbrook? Take a look at the newspaper and see what "starter homes" in the city are selling for. The majority are going for over $100,000. Hardly the price I would consider for a starter home. How many vacant residential lots are out there? How long does the average lot stay for sale? What is the price of an average lot in Winona?
I think the city has been "redeveloping" the older neighborhoods in Winona. Streets have been removed and replaced. New water lines and sewer lines. New curb and gutter. The new dredged in area was in the "old East End" in fact it is even further east of Mankato. The Pelzer St. construction and future overpasses. The list can go on.
I personally don't believe the county has much business or say in how the city of Winona grows or changes. The county has enough on its plate as it is nor should it tell one governmental body how to go about doing business. I've read posts about how the city and the county need to work together. If the county gets involved in issues that shouldn't concern the county the divisiveness will only go deeper. The Phillips property, whether it is developed or not, will always be in the county. Why hasn't the county been involved in St. Charles' growth? Farm land was annexed into the city and now is part of the "burb" there. Why wasn't the county involved in Stockton's recent development? What about Goodview's recent annexations? Where was the county then? If the county's land use plan didn't envision growth or change in Winona I would say that there wasn't much thought into the plan.
I find it difficult to swallow that 85,000 farmers over the past 5 years have been forced from their farms due to subdivisions. Could it be that prices for milk, corn, soybeans and other commodities have remained low thus making it difficult for the average American farmer that has 40 milking cows and 160 acres of land to make a living? When the break even point for a dairy farmer is around $14 a hundred weight it is tough to make a go of it. The American farmers can be partly to blame for the loss of farmers. There have been major improvements in farming in the recent years that have brought farm prices down and production up.
If there is a county road that due to design and construction has contributed to a fatal accident in Winona County I suggest that road be fixed tomorrow and pray that nobody dies on it tonight. If there is a road out there like that and the county knows about it.....can you say lawsuit? Where are those roads so I can stay off of them? The overwhelming majority of fatal accidents in the county and city of Winona can be blamed on driver inattentiveness, speed, and alcohol. I've yet seen one due to design or construction. There won't be a 500 car influx over night. Traffic patterns can be determined and fixed. I don't see this as a major issue. I find it a stretch to compare Winona's potential traffic woes to that of the Twin Cities, but then again I wonder.
I envision affordable building lots within the city of Winona that are serviced by water and sewer so housing will become more affordable. I envision that by the city being able to provide water and sewer the city is actually saving farm land for future generations and helping saving our environment better than septic tanks.
I applaud the city leaders for "thinking out of the box" on this issue. Yes, Winona can grow/change. I know that on this subject (just like the majority of subjects on WOD)my view isn't that of the norm. But, that is okay. If we all held the same ideas wouldn't this be a boring place?
Yes, "times are a changing" and we can either embrace the changes and attempt direct the changes to suit our needs or the changes will happen and catch us off guard wondering what just ran us over.
Chris Nelson
-------Original Message-------
Date: 07/17/04 10:49:48
Subject: [Winona] Wilson Township Involves More Than City & Mr. Phillips
[Winona Online Democracy]
The population of the City of Winona and Winona County is basically flat.
We've had very little or no increases in population over the last 25 years.
Some would say that is a bad thing. Is it?
The issue of developing hundreds of acres in Wilson Township is then a
"want" and not a "need." That is one reason why the questions that two of
the Wilson Township Supervisors have asked of the City are very important.
If people were hanging out of the windows in Winona due to overcrowding,
then it would be a need and of course we would have to make room. But this
is not the case.
-----
The developer has a (very) short term monetary interest in the property and
has rights that need to be respected.
But all levels of local government have long term economic, environmental,
and social responsibilities in the community and those rights need to be
respected.
-----
Development used to viewed as a simple matter between two parties, a city
and land developer.
Today, planners and elected leaders have available to them new tools and
new ways of thinking about development issues.
Today we now have knowledge of how biology, economics, pollution, traffic,
and other issues all interconnect and overlap. The ten cent phrase for
that relationship is "systems thinking." We also have tools to measure,
map, and predict what will happen to the system that were not available
10-20-50 years ago.
Will we have the wisdom and humility to use these new tools and new ways of
thinking?
-----
The issue is NOT just between a developer, whose only purpose is to make
money in the short term and then move on, and the City, whose main purpose
is to grow just for growth's sake because growth has always assumed to be a
good thing. Especially focusing on growth that means large expensive homes
in newly acquired burbs. A process that usually means the City leaders
neglect the "old" city neighborhoods with their time, attention, and money.
(Again, is progress and growth the same thing? Could the city be improved
by renovating and investing in it's older neighborhoods and public
services? I believe that's referred to as "redevelopment.")
I believe that in addition to the property owner and the City; that Wilson
Township, the neighbors, and the County also have important concerns and a
right to be involved in the decision making process.
The Wilson Township issue isn't just a business agreement between the City
and Mr. Phillips. (By the way I respect Mr. Phillips. He has been very
helpful and professional. This is not about him, it's not personal, it's
about the project itself.)
Here are some other people and problems the proposed development in Wilson
Township affect:
-----
Short Version
1. Impacts on Farmers and Neighbors
2. Traffic Problems
3. Water Pollution
4. Future unintended consequences and problems
-----
Long Version
1. Impacts on Farmers and Neighbors:
Modern economics has shown that one of the strongest forces pushing farmers
off of their land is the arrival of subdivisions. Subdivisions literally
eat up farm land. According to the U.S. Census, we've lost 16 MILLION
acres of farm land and about 85,000 farmers over the last 5 years.
Subdivisions also have a bow wave affect by raising the property values of
surrounding farm land that causes their property taxes to rise. Many
believe that family owned farms are a bedrock of communities and democracy
itself. The neighbors who are not farmers also have legitimate concerns
and rights.
2. Traffic Problems:
At least twice every day I drive by lines painted on a road where a young
man was killed in a traffic accident. I want to be very respectful of that
tragedy and the family so I will not mention their name or the road. One
reason of many the fatal accident happened was that city and county road
design and construction can not keep up with new development growth. If
Wilson Township has between 150-200 more homes in it (not to mention Mr.
Marafie's 300-500 acres sitting right behind the Phillips property waiting
to be developed), you can bet the traffic on County Highway 17 will
increase. We've all driven through the traffic craziness around the Twin
Cities. That will happen here.
3. Water Pollution:
Modern science and planning have shown the tremendous impacts that the
impervious (solid) surfaces of roads, driveways, roof tops, parking lots,
and other buildings have on water pollution. If we fool around with the
hydrological cycle, we risk destroying a very important natural system.
Additionally, about 40-50% of septic systems in Minnesota are failing.
Southeast Minnesota is already called the "E-Coli Capital of Minnesota."
Who gets to pay to fix that? Taxpayers. That's why local and state
government needs to be involved. Even city water and sewer lines have
their own problems because they sometimes can not handle large loads of
waste water. Their treated water is discharged right into the once
beautiful Mississippi River. Sometimes that water is not able to be
treated at all. That is why the mouth of the Mississippi in the Gulf of
Mexico is a huge dead zone. I was in Milwaukee last month and the
headlines in the newspapers were talking about hundreds of BILLIONS of
gallons of raw sewage being discharged directly into the Great Lakes
because of rain storms.
4. Future Unintended Consequences and Problems:
Almost all of today's worst problems are human made, not "natural."
Most of tomorrow's problems are avoidable if people take responsibility for
the future consequences of their actions, think differently, and are
willing to make tough decisions today. Of course the easier and more
traditional method of dealing with tough issues is to ignore future
consequences and instead do it the way it's always been done and in a way
that benefits a few people the most in the present.
What do we want Winona County to look like in 10, 20, 30 years?
What is economically/environmentally important? In addition, what is
beautiful and what do we want our children to have and see? In addition,
can we keep on doing things the way we've been doing them for the last 50
years?
Those are future realities our decisions today will determine. We have
that power. We have that responsibility.
It makes decision making more complex, some would say "messy," but isn't it
important enough to do?
Individual fisherman don't intend to destroy the Northeast fish banks but
their actions taken together as a group are destroying that whole biosystem
so that it may not be able to recover (this situation is one example of
"The Tragedy of the Commons" concept).
No one developer intends to drive farmers off their land, pollute the
water, cause traffic problems, and eat up all the beautiful natural land
but their actions taken together as a group, taken over time, will have
those affects nonetheless.
-----
We have a systemic problem. We have outdated local government structures
dealing with modern problems that require us to think differently, plan
smarter, and work together.
The City of Winona has a land use plan whose main purpose is growth for
growth's sake. Concerns for farmers, water pollution, and traffic are also
mentioned but all those appeared trumped by the desire to grow.
The County has a Comprehensive Land Use Plan that has many goals in it but
the first one is to protect farmers, farmland, and the natural areas. The
goal is to preserve and protect for future generations.
Despite a stable population, the City appears to want to grow no matter
what, the County's plan seeks to preserve. A conflict exists. To add to
the mix, Wilson Township has it's own land use plan. At the very least,
the three need to talk and wisely plan for current and future problems. Jan
Turek's suggestions were great ones.
I also think we may need to reform and improve how local governments work
on development planning. Some areas around the country, including Olmsted
County--Rochester, have created joint city-county planning departments.
The City's planning process has strengths and weaknesses. The County's
planning process has strengths and weaknesses. Wilson Township's planning
process has strengths and weaknesses. If the three could at least talk, if
not combine their strengths resources, then better decisions could be made.
-----
At best I'm only an amateur or student in the fields of planning, biology,
engineering, and areas like that. I readily admit that.
I respect the work of people like Keith Nelson, Phil Carlson, Eric
Sorensen, Chuck Dillerud, and other professional like them. They know much
more than I do but no one knows everything.
My questions and concerns are not meant to question their experience or
knowledge.
I just worry that some are defining the problem too narrowly or may not be
open to others input.
I definitely do not claim to have all the answers. Heck, I have a lot of
questions.
But I also think this is a problem that is so big and affects so many
people, both now and in the future, that no 2-3 people in City Hall can
best solve it by themselves.
I think many people need to put their heads together, seek out lots of
public input, discuss and debate ideas in public, and then try to make the
best decision possible.
Yes, it may take time but isn't it more important to do it right rather
than rush it or take the more traditional easy route of ignoring the wider
and future consequences of todays land use problems?
What do others think?
Dwayne Voegeli
July 18, 2004
------------
Dwayne Voegeli
Winona County Commissioner, District #2
(507) 453-9012
359 Pleasant Hill Dr.
Winona, MN 55987
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