[Winona Online Democracy]



Chris:
 
I, for one, am grateful to hear (read?/know?) your point of view and all the different points of view.  That's exactly what WOD should be about.  I learn from everyone's viewpoints--probably more from those dissimilar to my own. 
 
An example in the post below is your view that most automobile fatalities in our area are due to "driver inattentiveness, speed, and alcohol" is a significant one.  I suspect that, as a police officer, you would have a unique vantage point and access to accurate data about such things.  I don't think that this negates Dwayne's experience at a very frustrating intersection, but makes me think that it is less likely that whatever is frustrating about the intersection was not necessarily the CAUSE of the accident.  I think we learned from our discussion of that nasty intersection at 4th and Liberty (? the one next to Watkins) that even when a significant number of drivers experience the intersection as dangerous, more data is needed to justify a change by the city.  All of this makes me think that when you add a little bit of driver inattentiveness to a frustrating intersection, the risk of an accident must be higher than at an intersection with good visability and only a little traffic.  City officials (and county, of course) are caught between two conflicting objectives that their constituants demand: fiscal responsibility and traffic management/safety.  I don't envy them in that regard!!!  As with the Liberty St. issue, the city did gather some data about the intersection and had criteria set forth for determining whether or not to control the intersection.  The conclusion was to leave it as is. 
 
I think it would be helpful to know more about intersections where fatalities occur--what is the DOT or County or City's response as far as evaluating the intersection after a fatality occurs?  What is the general process for determining a change in the way intersections are managed/controlled?  As with many things that happen in our community, a fatal accident brings up fears in citizens--Could that happen to me or my loved ones? I think that good information--citizen education--is what is needed to ease those fears and that for officials to share that information in a timely way encourages trust on the part of the citizens.
 
Just my 2 cents.
 
Kathy Seifert
 
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, July 19, 2004 1:50 AM
Subject: Re: [Winona] Wilson Township Involves More Than City & Mr. Phillips

[Winona Online Democracy]


Dwayne asked other's opinions on this subject so here are mine.  I've tried to go along with Dwayne's questions/comments.
 
This entire topic reminds me of the lyrics of a song "the times they are a changing".  .
 
I think you could replace the word "growth" with the word "change" in Dwayne's post.  Winona has had a difficult time with change.  I think the majority would agree with me.  I agree that change for the sake of change is a poor idea.  It only makes people question the change, and if it accomplishes nothing it only angers those that had to change.  When people ask about Winona I often tell people Winona is like stepping back in time.  To about the 1970's.  We are now grappling with an issue that other communities  dealt with years and years ago.
 
I would like to know why Winona hasn't changed or grown compared to other communities?  We have been told that Winona can't grow because of the bluffs and the river.  Nonsense.  Growth can happen and it has happened, but slowly.  Why haven't businesses come to Winona?
 
Winona added 70 acres of land with the dredging of the lake.  Yes, the land was already in the city limits and was intended for commercial and industrial "growth" but it is now useful for building.  We could go into this subject and talk about what was sold to the community, but I think that horse has already been beaten to death.  If we add industrial and retail space where are all the people suppose to live that will move to Winona?  Will there be affordable housing options for people moving to Winona?  Should we tell businesses they are welcome but don't build any homes?
 
Could some of WAPS current financial problems be traced back to the lack of growth or change in Winona?  I don't know and that is why I'm asking.  Dwayne stated that Winona hasn't grown much in the last 25 years.  I would bet there has been little growth in the last 100 years.  Yes, I do realize there are more charter schools and the enrollment in private schools is on the rise.  Why is this so?  Could it be that the WAPS has failed to see the need for different learning environments that can be offered by different schools?  Could it be that WAPS has failed to change with the times?  If WAPS would have offered magnet schools or different learning environments would this have changed the current situation that we are in?  If Winona had grown over the past 100 years would the population of school aged children be different than now?  Would the median age of a Winonan be lower than 28.8 years old? 
 
According to the 2000 census less than 4% of all the housing units in Winona are empty.  The figure for the 1990 census is about the same.  Many posts on WOD have talked about the need for affordable housing units.  How many houses in the town of Wilson's Springbook subdivision are affordable to the average income person?  By the way the average Winona income for 2000 was roughly $33,000.  What is the average price of a home in Springbrook?  Take a look at the newspaper and see what "starter homes" in the city are selling for.  The majority are going for over $100,000.  Hardly the price I would consider for a starter home.  How many vacant residential lots are out there?  How long does the average lot stay for sale?  What is the price of an average lot in Winona?
 
I think the city has been "redeveloping" the older neighborhoods in Winona.  Streets have been removed and replaced.  New water lines and sewer lines.  New curb and gutter.  The new dredged in area was in the "old East End" in fact it is even further east of Mankato.  The Pelzer St. construction and future overpasses.  The list can go on.
 
I personally don't believe the county has much business or say in how the city of Winona grows or changes.  The county has enough on its plate as it is nor should it tell one governmental body how to go about doing business.  I've read posts about how the city and the county need to work together.  If the county gets involved in issues that shouldn't concern the county the divisiveness will only go deeper.  The Phillips property, whether it is developed or not, will always be in the county.  Why hasn't the county been involved in St. Charles' growth?  Farm land was annexed into the city and now is part of the "burb" there.  Why wasn't the county involved in Stockton's recent development?  What about Goodview's recent annexations?  Where was the county then?  If the county's land use plan didn't envision growth or change in Winona I would say that there wasn't much thought into the plan.
 
I find it difficult to swallow that 85,000 farmers over the past 5 years have been forced from their farms due to subdivisions.  Could it be that prices for milk, corn, soybeans and other commodities have remained low thus making it difficult for the average American farmer that has 40 milking cows and 160 acres of land to make a living?  When the break even point for a dairy farmer is around $14 a hundred weight it is tough to make a go of it.  The American farmers can be partly to blame for the loss of farmers.  There have been major improvements in farming in the recent years that have brought farm prices down and production up.
 
If there is a county road that due to design and construction has contributed to a fatal accident in Winona County I suggest that road be fixed tomorrow and pray that nobody dies on it tonight.  If there is a road out there like that and the county knows about it.....can you say lawsuit?  Where are those roads so I can stay off of them?  The overwhelming majority of fatal accidents in the county and city of Winona can be blamed on driver inattentiveness, speed, and alcohol.  I've yet seen one due to design or construction.  There won't be a 500 car influx over night.  Traffic patterns can be determined and fixed.  I don't see this as a major issue.  I find it a stretch to compare Winona's potential traffic woes to that of the Twin Cities, but then again I wonder.
 
I envision affordable building lots within the city of Winona that are serviced by water and sewer so housing will become more affordable.  I envision that by the city being able to provide water and sewer the city is actually saving farm land for future generations and helping saving our environment better than septic tanks. 
 
I applaud the city leaders for "thinking out of the box" on this issue.  Yes, Winona can grow/change.   I know that on this subject (just like the majority of subjects on WOD)my view isn't that of the norm.  But, that is okay.  If we all held the same ideas wouldn't this be a boring place?
 
 Yes, "times are a changing" and we can either embrace the changes and attempt direct the changes to suit our needs or the changes will happen and catch us off guard wondering what just ran us over.
 
Chris Nelson 
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