[Winona Online Democracy] I too am happy to see coorespondence from the members of the City Council. I know Dwayne makes light of the jabbing and attacks, but I am having a hard time understanding this type of communication. It is one thing to become angered over differences of opinions, but I do not understand the personal attacks that go along the city's debating on a subject. And I will clarify, that it is not all City Council members, but the City Council must know that the actions of one reflect on the many. Dwayne was personally attacked for putting facts in the paper, I have been personally attacked several times, and my employer has been contacted (sick), our Township Board members have been personally attacked, our neighborhood was called Pains in the A--. Can the discussion stay within the paramaeters of the debate not the person?? I have asked several people to contact City Council members and they tell me the same story. Can noone have a difference of opinion with out it getting personally attacked or fear the ramifications of the City Council? This is quite disturbing. Even prominent business people in our town have told me they fear future decisions will be biased if they disagree with the Council or raise a stink on an issue. I would say that the personal attacks on people have only added lots of fuel to the flames not only on the annexation issue but other issues as well.
I would hope that our City Council, Managers and Mayor and whoever else is involved in decision making, can put personal vendettas aside. There should be none. It is an issue, not a person who should be attacked. Mike Kirschman is really a nice guy, so is Dwayne Voegli, so is Tim Breza, and some of the other council men. Let's stay on track and debate the issue, even if heated. Jab at the issue not the person. We need to live together in this community when this debate is all over. and please don't contact peoples employers over anger on an opinion that is not the same as yours. It only makes the debate look ridiculous to those not involved. I am up for a good debate which now has turned into a fight, but can this "personal attacking" stop? Fight me over the annexation, don't fight me or others involved personally. Janice Turek ---- Original Message ----- From: "Dwayne Voegeli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 2004 12:12 AM Subject: [Winona] Tim Breza's Post-->Mayor Miller's Mtg on Annexation Issues > [Winona Online Democracy] > > I'm going to reply to Tim Breza's e-mail message that was below Jan Turek's > last message. (See below) > > I'm very happy to finally see one of the City Council members joining the > conversation. > > Tim, please contribute more, your input will make this a more meaningful, > deep, and hopefully productive discussion. > > Some replies to your message: > > 1. Mayor's Meeting Notice: > > Yes, the Mayor met the letter of the law, that is not in question. The > problem is basic courtesy, professionalism, simple respect for other local > government bodies, and a willingness to seek out, and welcome public input. > If the School Board was considering an issue that would have direct > impacts and costs for the city government, wouldn't you want to be involved > in the discussion of the issue before, rather than after decisions have > been made? Now imagine if you asked to sit down and talk and them no > answer came for over 3 weeks. Then imagine if the School Board chair > decided to hold a meeting on the issue and did not notify you or anyone > else who has been very interested in the topic and instead only issues a > very generic and anemic press release to the local media. If nothing else, > how hard is it to add a few people to the CC line of your e-mail when you > send the press release out? This isn't rocket science. > > > 2. Attendance at Public Meetings: > > I think this may be a good example of self fullfilling expectations. The > City Council and staff think no one is or should be interested in this > topic so they don't try to seek out real public discussion or diverse views > on the topic. I went to the last meeting at the Wilson Township Hall that > the Wilson Supervisors had notified people about and there was at least 40 > people in that room and that was only to basically listen to 3 lawyers > talking to each other. Imagine what a well planned and well publicized > event would look like, especially if the City actually talked with the > County or Wilson Township to set the event up? At best, it seems like the > City Council and staff are going through the motions and then only > begrudgingly. > > > 3. Why Increased Level of Scrutiny for City of Winona Annexation Plans? > > This is a fair and valid question and one that should be answered. Here > are some reasons why: > > A. No other city in the County is as big a threat to farm land and natural > land. > > B. No other city in the County has, to my knowledge, conducted as many > secret studies to annex various sized chuncks of township land, including > almost 4,000 acres of one township alone. > > C. No other city in the County has such a poor track record of working > with, respecting, and cooperating with townships, local governments, and > others. > > D. No other city in the County has treated it's surrounding Township > Supervisors with so much disrespect. I have heard no concerns from > Township Supervisors or residents who live around St. Charles, Goodview, > Lewiston, Rollingstone, etc. > > E. No other city in the County has as big of a problem with public > discussion, open meetings, and working with others. > > F. No other city in the County has had such serious water pollution and > wetland problems. > > > For those reasons and others, that is why the City of Winona is being held > to an increased level of scrutiny. When the stakes are so high, the > standards also need to be high. > > > 4. Two Jabs and Jest: > > Tim made at least two jabs in his e-mail. > > No problem, they are taken in the spirit of healthy (and fun) debate but > needing responses nonetheless. > > (Can I jab like that too?) > > ;-> > > A. Jab #1: "Half Million Dollar Home Owners": While it is true that > Springbrook has some large homes in it, there are plenty of diverse people > in Wilson who have concerns about this land grab. To try to reduce this > big problem to a simple case of NIMBY is neither fair nor accurate. > > B. Jab #2: "A matter of keeping the public in the dark while they conduct > the people's business." I'm not sure but I assume that is some kind of > indirect jab at the County Board and Wilson Township. This one is just > plain funny so I'll jab back a bit. If the Guiness Book of World Records > kept records for worst communication skills, most secretive, and most > thin-skinned public bodies, the Winona City Council would be the current > record holder. (Take it only as good hearted jest.) I'll speak for myself > on the County Board only (but not for the County Board). We discuss and > debate issues out in the open and we rarely have unanimous votes. We sure > don't all think alike and our votes reflect that, I'm proud of that. Our > diversity is one of our strengths. We don't have the staff administrator > conduct or "canvass" all the important conversations behind the scenes and > then have no real discussion and debate in front of the public. > > Tim, why is it simply so hard to talk with the City? It's like pulling teeth! > > Why won't the City Council even do the most basic of courtesies and reply > to the County Board's request to talk? > > Dwayne Voegeli > > August 3, 2004 > > ----- > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "Tim Breza" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Sent: Monday, August 02, 2004 10:17 PM > >Subject: RE: [Winona] Mayor Miller's meeting on Annexation Issues > > > > > >> Ms. Turek make some good points and some bad assumptions. > >> > >> First, I want to assure everyone that each of the Winona Council members > >has > >> a vote and do use it in any formal proceeding. The Mayor may speak on > >behalf > >> of the city on many issues, but it is not a binding statement or position. > >> The same can be said of the remarks of any council member speaking in the > >> same way. > >> > >> As to meeting notification. The mayor or any council member may call a > >> meeting when less than four people are present and then no notice needs to > >> be given. If there are four elected city council persons and/or mayor > >coming > >> together for a meeting, it is a public meeting and proper public notice > >> needs to be given. The mayor has done this for this referenced meeting. > >> > >> As to why more city people turn up for these annexation meetings than > >those > >> of the township, is it because only a small number of vocal people are > >> concerned about the issue? Also having said this, I am sure that some > >> candidates for mayor or city council will try to make this the number one > >> issue of this election. This is the power of people that have half million > >> dollar houses in the township and don't want to have any neighbors. I > >guess > >> the cost of privacy in Winona comes at a steep price, but in other cities > >in > >> Winona county, there is little cost because there is no discussion of > >> annexation, development, or how your tax dollars work. > >> > >> I have to ask why there is limited discussions on annexation? Is it > >because > >> the county and township officials don't want to keep comprehensive records > >> of their meeting for "liability" reasons? This is just a matter of keeping > >> the public in the dark while they conduct the people's business. > >> > >> Tim Breza > > ------------ > > Dwayne Voegeli > > Winona County Commissioner > > (507) 453-9012 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > 359 Pleasant Hill Dr. > Winona, MN 55987 > > ------------ > > > _______________________________________________ > This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy > All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. > No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. > To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit > http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona > Any problems or suggestions can be directed to > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at > http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org _______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. 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