[Winona Online Democracy]
All pay comparisons are very difficult. As are all result based
rewards. I don't envy either side.
No one public or private has a easy job. Jobs are tough. Who gets what
cannot be examined in a public forum.
The problems business and government only have so much to spend and if they
exceed that they have a problem.
The school board has a tough job. They need to allocate the money they have.
They need to make the tough decisions based on what they have and we need to
support them. Or run for their job. We the voters gave them money and should
now tell them this is all and run it to the best of their ability.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bothuns
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 4:25 PM
To: Cherisa Templeton; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Winona] School Administrators/NPR bias
[Winona Online Democracy]
I'm sorry, but when I read somewhere that the solution to our education
problems is simply to cut spending, on anything, I just have to laugh, and
then cry. Right now countries like Colombia, Malaysia and Hungry already
outspend the US on Education as a percentage of GDP. No disrespect
intended, but should we assume that it is OK to come in behind those
countries and still claim to be the leaders of the free world?
When the average Principal to Teacher pay ratio hits 460 to 1, as it is in
the private sector, or perhaps just 46 to 1, like it was in the US private
sector just 20 years ago, then I'll get interested in cutting administrative
expenditures. Right now it stands at about 4 to 1 in Minnesota which
clearly implies that it needs to go up not down.
Bryon Bothun
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cherisa Templeton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, December 30, 2005 2:29 PM
Subject: RE: [Winona] School Administrators/NPR bias
> [Winona Online Democracy]
>
>
> I don't know C.E. (what is your name?) if your assumptions are correct - I
> would think that 10-20 years ago the district didn't have one Principal
> for 3 grade schools, I bet each building had its own Principal. Now, it
> may be that even with 3 buildings each Principal may have roughly the same
> amount of students as years ago since the buildings have fewer students in
> them...
>
> But again, what do you consider administrative? What "administrators" seem
> superfluous to you?
>
> And I would also ask re: your NPR posting - what is liberal news and what
> is conservative news? I've listened to many, many republicans,
> creationists, right wingers of all kinds on MPR and NPR - I believe the
> folks that run Public Radio actually keep a count to make sure that they
> keep the guests in even numbers between opposing sides.
>
> So how do you define it as liberal?
> Cherisa Templeton
>
>
>
>
>>From: "C. E. Woodford" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>To: [email protected]
>>Subject: [Winona] Re: Winona Digest, Vol 24, Issue 12
>>Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 10:16:44 -0800 (PST)
>>
>>[Winona Online Democracy]
>>
>
>
>>I think we all know what the answer to solving class size issues in Winona
>>Public Schools is; cut back on administrative positions and hire more
>>teachers..has anyone taken a look at how many admin. positions there are
>>now compared to ten years ago? then ratio that out to a student/admin vs.
>>student/teacher ten years ago compared to today, I think you will be
>>astonished to see what has happened to our school budget, it is being
>>chewed up by administration...the students and the teachers are suffering.
>>Let me paraphrase the whole thing...cut the fat from the administration.
>>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Send Winona mailing list submissions to
>>[email protected]
>>
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>>
>>
>>Today's Topics:
>>
>>1. Fw: [Winona] You Know Class Sizes Are Too Big At the
>>HighSchoolWhen... (Dwayne and Denine Voegeli)
>>
>>
>>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>Message: 1
>>Date: Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:43:44 -0600
>>From: "Dwayne and Denine Voegeli"
>>Subject: Fw: [Winona] You Know Class Sizes Are Too Big At the
>>HighSchoolWhen...
>>To: "E Democracy"
>>Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
>>reply-type=response
>>
>>Hello John,
>>
>>I am not dodging your question. It is a very good and valid question. I
>>simply do not have the hard data you are asking for.
>>
>>Again, I would like to see those hard numbers myself.
>>
>>My observations are based on my ten years of experience at the High School
>>and my memory of class sizes over the years. I will readily admit that a
>>fair and accurate number analysis would give a more fair and accurate
>>picture of the changes over time. I will readily admit my memory is not
>>perfect and is subjective. (Heck, I'll even admit my memory is even fading
>>with the passage of time.)
>>
>>;->
>>
>>Please feel free to ask someone within the District Administration for the
>>information about my classes over the last ten years. I would be glad to
>>see it publicly presented.
>>
>>Dwayne Voegeli
>>
>>Dec. 27, 2005
>>
>>======================
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "jj"
>>To:
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2005 7:48 AM
>>Subject: Re: [Winona] You Know Class Sizes Are Too Big At the
>>HighSchoolWhen...
>>
>>
>> > [Winona Online Democracy]
>> >
>> > Dwayne did not answer the question, so I will ask again: What is the
>>mean
>> > class size? And how has it changed over the past six years? What
>> > subject
>> > is taught in the class he speaks of?
>> >
>> > Leslie Hittner:
>> >
>> >> Large numbers of single section classes make any kind of
>> >> scheduling system ( 4, 5, 6, or 7 period) nearly impossible to work
>>with.
>> >
>> > Perhaps some help from the algorithmically talented could help with the
>> > problem of making schedules. If the problem is impossible, how are you
>> > solving it today? Or is it merely tedious? Or have the schedulers just
>> > given up? Understanding the problem completely can point to hidden
>> > problems and solutions. For example, a class without enough desks is
>> > simply unacceptable. Is there another classroom with enough that's
>> > being
>> > utilized improperly? Or does this point to a justification of a larger
>> > building or more instructors. WE DO NOT KNOW because we do not know the
>> > problem. (What you speak of could be a classic NP Complete problem, but
>> > often problems like class scheduling can be sufficiently accommodated.)
>> >
>> >>How has that value changed in 10 years? How many single
>> >>section classes are in the schedule today compared with 1995
>> >>(in total and as a percentage of the entire schedule)?
>> >
>> > Okay, let us have an answer to that, but also we need to know how the
>> > numbers affected students and outcomes. Not all large classes are a bad
>> > thing.
>> >
>> >>As single section classes grow in numbers, however, students are
>> >>hurt in at least two ways: (1) less efficient use of teaching and
>> >>learning time within each class and (2) [. snip repeat of above.]
>> >
>> > Is there evidence that the large classes in particular (not all large
>> > classes - these particular classes) cause less effective teaching, or
>> > might there be methods to teach them that are not being employed? Who,
>> > what is failing here?
>> >
>> > john stafford
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------
>>
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>>
>>End of Winona Digest, Vol 24, Issue 12
>>**************************************
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
>
>
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