[Winona Online Democracy]
I realize the language issue is a problem to some people.
It is common for people in other countries to learn at least one other language, if not 2-3 more. In America, the idea of knowing more than one language is still a foreign concept to many people. (It will also hurt us in the long run.) A few weeks ago there was an article in the Star Tribune that said of the roughly 300 million Americans, 100 million of them were people of color. 1/3 of America is not "white." That is not the case in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Iowa, and the Dakotas but we are the exception and not the rule. People need to realize that America will look different in the future. The past is the past. But back to your original point. Again, language is a valid issue to an extent but, in my opinion, I view it as an example of arguing about what mop to use to clean up the overflowing water in your basement instead of turning the water off in the first place. We're dealing with a symptom and not the root cause. Dwayne Voegeli June 3, 2007 ============= ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert P Kaldunski To: Dwayne and Denine Voegeli Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [Winona] Root Causes of Immigration? --> those jobs all would havebeen filled regardless Dwayne, I think you have made some good points, but, The core of the whole problem with our Southern Border is primarily the Language problem. I saw some pictures that were in some California Papers two years ago which upset me as a Veteran. Some Mexican Students placing The Mexican Flag over ours. The other problem is the thing we see every day in our Govt offices and in the workplaces THE BI-LINGUAL POSTERS. This is the US of A Our language is English, not Spanish, or any other Countries' Language Our Fore Fathers came here and learned to speak it or brought a translator with them to conduct business. Check out the other Countries, They have their signs posters etc in the language of their Country, Not English. When I went to another Country while in the Service I made an effort to learn Some of the Language to converse with the populous, when my Wife First came to the States from Germany I made a point of having her learn English. This is what I expect of any immigrant. Don't you think I have the right to expect this. Robert P Kaldunski ----- Original Message ----- From: Dwayne and Denine Voegeli To: E Democracy Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 9:43 PM Subject: [Winona] Root Causes of Immigration? --> those jobs all would havebeen filled regardless [Winona Online Democracy] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Linda Fort makes an excellent point. "They" are some of our hardest workers in America. (We all know what "they" is a code word for in most circles.) Regarding the assertion that since my ancestors came here legally, so should "they." Is it fair to compare then and now? Wasn't America a wee bit different 100 or more years ago? More land for starters? On another note, what does "free trade" and "New World Order" mean anyway? Does that concept of freedom only apply to cheap plastic things from China that can cross borders freely? What about the freedom of human beings to seek liberty, justice, and opportunity? Here is another kind of question. If you walked into the basement of your house and there was three inches of water on the floor because a sink was overflowing, what would you do first? Grab a mop? or Turn the faucet off? What is the point? No matter how high we build our own Berlin Walls in Texas or how many bored hunters we give guns to, people will always try to find a way to achieve a better life for their families and themselves. Make the wall 100 feet tall and it still won't work. Every large wall in history has not worked (i.e. Great Wall of China, Maginot Line, Berlin Wall, etc.). Why? Because it deals with the symptoms and not the root causes or larger systemic problems. We need to turn the faucet off first. We need to address the root causes that lead to large migrations (poverty, war, ecosystem destruction) or will we always be dealing with symptoms and not the real problem. Why do we not worry, or at least not used to worry, about our border with Canada? They have a stable economy and a good standards of living. If people had a chance to achieve a basic standard of living, the vast majority would not choose to move and leave their families, friends, and culture. They would not move to a land with different languages, new customs, and sometimes hostile people who do not look kindly on newcomers. We have created a world economic system that requires crushing poverty in some parts of the world to assure wealth in other parts of the world. There is no way the whole world could live like we do. It's simply not possible. It is one of the strongest myths that some use to justify the status quo. The powers that be, in both political parties, have known this ever since the end of World War II (George Kennan's letters from the U.S. Foreign Service, et al). This is getting long winded. To summarize. Create the equivalent of a "minimum wage" for the whole world and work to allow women to have equal rights and most of these problems will fade away as global poverty and hunger decrease and world population slows down. It will also address the root causes of the so-called "war on terror." A group of European judges just recently pointed out that the current U.S. foreign policy creates more terrorists than it eliminates. I was going to hold back on this conversation. Sorry for the long e-mail. ;-> Dwayne Voegeli June 1, 2007 ============ ----- Original Message ----- From: LindaF To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, June 01, 2007 2:13 PM Subject: Re: [Winona] those jobs all would have been filled regardless [Winona Online Democracy] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ In my opinion they should work here legally. I am under the impression that illegals are not able to get SS benefits or any other type of aid because they don't have a SS number. Is this correct? And to be honest, well, a lot of the Mexicans do manual labor that Americans just don't want to do. How many Americans do you know personally who would milk cows for a shift of 8 hours? And then want to work more if they could? I know of 2 young men who would do it, that's it and I used to be in the dairy farming industry. You just cannot find people, especially young people, who want to do physical, hard, manual labor such as farming. Be it milking cows or harvesting crops. Linda Fort [Winona Online Democracy] ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- All those jobs and figures you just presented would have been constant and remained in our economy regardless, they just would have been filled by LEGAL residents or at least here on a work permit/visa. To imply that all those "contributions" the illegal workers made to our economy is misleading. If anything, they hurt the legal worker by driving down his/her paycheck. This fact alone should be something anyone with a politically left bend should embrace..this is one of the hurdles to getting fair wages to all American workers( over 9,000,000 skilled jobs are filled by illegal immigrants at below market wages).. Again I ask, What is wrong with requiring residents and those working in tyhe US to be here legitimately? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Sick sense of humor? Visit Yahoo! 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_______________________________________________ This message was posted to Winona Online Democracy All messages must be signed by the senders actual name. No commercial solicitations are allowed on this list. To manage your subscription or view the message archives, please visit http://mapnp.mnforum.org/mailman/listinfo/winona Any problems or suggestions can be directed to mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want help on how to contact elected officials, go to the Contact page at http://www.winonaonlinedemocracy.org
