I think the idea of some small, local meetings with some how-to and general
discussion sounds great.  There's a great place in downtown Campbell,
Orchard Valley Coffee that I am sure would love to have a group in there-
they have been providing free wireless for a while now. 

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 2004 10:22 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: wireless Digest, Vol 8, Issue 26

Send wireless mailing list submissions to
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
        http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

You can reach the person managing the list at
        [EMAIL PROTECTED]

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of wireless digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. tech help meetings - Handout on creating free hotspots
      (Joshua Marker)
   2. Community meetings (Joshua Marker)
   3. Re: Best hardware for cheap/fast bridging? (Jim Thompson)
   4. Re: tech help meetings - Handout on creating free hotspots
      (Eric Walstad)
   5. Re: Good SFLAN node (Eric Walstad)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:28:19 -0700
From: Joshua Marker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [BAWUG] tech help meetings - Handout on creating free
        hotspots
To: Bay Area Wireless Users Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"


        I'm thinking the best way to start this stuff off is to start
locally, 
with small meetings. If I had an evening in Noe Valley, for example, 
where everyone was welcome to come chat about what they were doing, who 
would come? There is a new place on Dolores that has free wireless that 
would love the business - I think that would be my first choice.

        We should be able to provide, on our website and in print, simple 
documents explaining to Joe Public how to make his NAP free to the 
neighborhood, and include all sorts of guerilla good-network-neighbor 
stuff -- how to pick a channel, how to name your network so people can 
contact you (without endangering yourself), etc.

        So this is two questions: How many people would show up to a basic 
wireless techfest and meet 'n greet in Noe/Mission next week, say 
Tuesday? If I could get a couple people to show up and answer 
questions, I'll go talk to the cafe and put up a sign.

        Second, what tips would you give Joe Q Public about opening up his 
wireless? What questions should we answer? I'll collect them, and 
prepare a doc. Does BAWUG have a decent logo, or do I have to generate 
some travesty of something based on the golden gate bridge and wireless 
radio waves? Don't make me do it; I will.


-- 
Never offend people with style when you can offend them with substance.
     -- Sam Brown, Washington Post
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 3781 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://lists.forko.com/pipermail/wireless/attachments/20041027/787157f4/smim
e-0001.bin

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:31:18 -0700
From: Joshua Marker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [BAWUG] Community meetings
To: Bay Area Wireless Users Group <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

        It seems to me that BAWUG/SFLAN have some enormously technically 
talented people involved. But that their development has both stalled, 
probably because only the terribly technical people originally involved 
have reached their carrying capacity in terms of attention.

        I think, however, that wireless in the bay area has a ways to go. 
Those guys in Portland are seriously showing us up.

        To this end, I suggest we take a look at what they're doing that
we're 
not. I'm looking for input on getting more _user_ involvement to take 
the burden off these guys and get the local network going, both in 
terms of increasing the number of Joe Publics making free hotspots and 
increasing links to SFLAN. A glance through Portland's site shows what 
they're doing:

1) Meetings, both user-level and developer-level
2) Organization. I'm not sure how much org there is. I think quite a 
lot in SFLAN, but it seems to be tightly held. I can't, for example, 
find any info about what IP layout they use, etc, etc.

        It seems to me the goal of a wireless group should be to encourage
any 
kind of adoption, from getting people to put up SFLAN nodes (clearly a 
big win) to simply sharing their DSL. To this end, we need to make it 
_easy_ for people to walk up the wireless path.

        First, we need simple hand-holding explanations of what Joe User can

do to put up a WAP and share his connection with his neighbor. This 
entails getting an ISP that doesn't mind, buying the tools, choosing 
the best channel, and securing their own machines. I think there will 
be a hand-out document* in the future here on this topic, but the best 
way to do research is to start helping people.

        Second, I know I'd like to see more of a plan, more info on what
SFLAN 
is about and what their future direction is. It's hard to know it right 
now. To this end, Friday, I'll go down to archive.org and bother the 
fine gents at SFLAN, if I can find them, and see if I can fill the gaps 
in my knowledge. I'd like to see some network infrastructure plans, get 
a sense of how this all goes down. Ideally, this should be 
semi-documented, but I'm not sure how best to go about it or what they 
have done already.

        Third (I lied, there are three, I just thought of this):
Recognition. 
Nobody knows to whom they should turn if they want to set up a wireless 
link. Many of the local cafes are already starbucked, which is a shame, 
because they both advertise and encourage if you get them in. A logo? 
Something to add to warchalking (does anyone warchalk anymore?) How can 
we let people know about what they could do for/with community 
wireless? I think if we get a little bit of organization, we could 
arrange an interview by eg the Guardian, and drive up membership or 
interest. We'll need an active group before that's smart, though.

        In the mean time, I think we need to light a fire. Mr. Pretorious
has 
offered a meeting spot for a bigger, full-scale meeting, in Freemont. 
Does anyone have one in San Francisco? I think we'd get more people.

-- 
Don't be afraid to take a big step if one is indicated. You can't cross 
a chasm in two small jumps.  -- David Lloyd George
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: smime.p7s
Type: application/pkcs7-signature
Size: 3781 bytes
Desc: not available
Url :
http://lists.forko.com/pipermail/wireless/attachments/20041027/bec9716e/smim
e-0001.bin

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 22:58:24 -1000
From: Jim Thompson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [BAWUG] Best hardware for cheap/fast bridging?
To: Eric Pretorious <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Eric Pretorious wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 October 2004 03:40 pm, Chris Weiss wrote:
> 
>>We're looking to connect our office LANs on two adjacent floors using a
>>wireless connection (the current cat-5 snaking out the window is not
>>going to cut it when the weather _really_ gets sour).
> 
> 
> Omnidirectional antennas are *generally* optimized to focus their beams in
the 
> horizontal plane. i.e., The beam radiation pattern looks like a squashed 
> donut. Therefore, two devices directly above/below each other will not be 
> able to communicate efficiently because they will be in each others' 
> donut-hole.

This is typically an effect of increased gain, not any "optimization".

Further, the path loss between two devices (antennas) placed directly 
above each other will be quite low, so even with the loss in 
directivity, communication will probably still take place.

> 
>>Amazon's got the Linksys WRT-54G for ~$60/ea...
> 
> IMHO: An excellent piece of equipment for residential use but I don't know

> about commerical applications. WPA (TKIP or AES), DHCP, detachable dual 
> antennas.
It has all this.  (Not that I think its much of an AP...)

> 
>>We'd also like to keep our existing wifi access, which leads to another
>>Q - I've heard that just the presence of 802.11b devices in an 802.11g
>>environment will drop everyone to b speeds, is that right?

For sure if an 11b device associates to an 11g AP, then the AP and its 
associated 11g STAs must start sending protection frames before any data 
frame(s).

While this doesn't drop everyone to 11b speeds, it does slow throughput 
down quite a bit.

The alternative is massive interference for everyone.

> 
> Set the different networks on different channels:
> 
>   http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,1558,1152281,00.asp

What you don't know can hurt you.  Most 11g devices don't have enough 
ACR at the higher modulation rates to allow simultaneous operation on 
ch11 and ch1.  (Anything closer is a bigger mess.)





------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:56:59 -0700
From: Eric Walstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [BAWUG] tech help meetings - Handout on creating free
        hotspots
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Wednesday 27 October 2004 05:28 pm, Joshua Marker wrote:
>  I'm thinking the best way to start this stuff off is to start
> locally, with small meetings. If I had an evening in Noe Valley,
> for example, where everyone was welcome to come chat about what
> they were doing, who would come? There is a new place on Dolores
> that has free wireless that would love the business - I think that
> would be my first choice.
Count me in.  I'm in Bernal Heights, so Noe would be a nice bike ride 
for me.


>  We should be able to provide, on our website and in print, simple
> documents explaining to Joe Public how to make his NAP free to the
> neighborhood, and include all sorts of guerilla
> good-network-neighbor stuff -- how to pick a channel, how to name
> your network so people can contact you (without endangering
> yourself), etc.
Consider me Joe Public.  I'm happy to be the test case.  I've done 
some of this stuff, but I've done so in a vacuum and would like to 
see how others are doing it.


>  So this is two questions: How many people would show up to a basic
> wireless techfest and meet 'n greet in Noe/Mission next week, say
> Tuesday? If I could get a couple people to show up and answer
> questions, I'll go talk to the cafe and put up a sign.
I'll show up, but I'll likely take the role of student rather than 
teacher.  I'm happy to talk about my current setup but it would be a 
short talk (using SFLAN to provide a network connection at home).


>    Second, what tips would you give Joe Q Public about opening up
> his wireless? 
I've not done this, although I have emailed SFLAN requesting info on 
how to use my Soekris 4521 to create a new SFLAN node.  No response 
yet.


> What questions should we answer? 
- What's needed to setup an SFLAN node
  - Are two different radios needed (b & g)?
  - What's the difference between a node and a repeater?
  - Must I have a good connection to certain SFLAN nodes
    to create a new node?

Eric.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: signature
Url :
http://lists.forko.com/pipermail/wireless/attachments/20041028/86278d10/atta
chment-0001.bin

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 2004 10:01:52 -0700
From: Eric Walstad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [BAWUG] Good SFLAN node
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On Wednesday 27 October 2004 05:19 pm, Joshua Marker wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good SFLAN node accessible from street level
> from which to examine the network? My local (47) never seems to
> show up; I fear it may be high above.
FWIW, I've been able to connect to 47 (I think) every time I've tried.  
But, I do have a little altitude.  Presumably you've seen the node 
map:
<http://woody.archive.org/nagios/cgi-bin/statusmap.cgi>
which may help.  It looks like 6, 37, 44 and 11 are all up right now, 
according to the status map.

Eric.
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: signature
Url :
http://lists.forko.com/pipermail/wireless/attachments/20041028/d951a315/atta
chment.bin

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
BAWUG's general wireless chat mailing list
[unsubscribe] http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

End of wireless Digest, Vol 8, Issue 26
***************************************

_______________________________________________
BAWUG's general wireless chat mailing list
[unsubscribe] http://lists.bawug.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Reply via email to