Title: Message
Ok, well, I trust this company.  The have experience doing wireless install, and warranty for 90 days.  I posted the proposed agreement on the paid list.  They told me horror stories of 8 hr installs and and the other guy not having the authentication ready so they could not even do the install.  I have an old retired friend who may work for 50-75 a day on call.  I have another friend REALLY SMART and can CLIMB LIKE A MONKEY who has lots of computer experience and even some programming.  Knows macs really well and would pick up wireless like a piece of cake.  He is looking for 30k and insurance.  How many $35 a month subs do I need to hire a 30k plus insurance kind of guy.  What needs to be on his resume?  As you consider this, remember.  I have NO personal expenses.  I live with my parents, no rent, house payment, food, ect...  I get no paycheck.  The nearest thing I get for money is gas in the truck and taking the girlfriend out every 2 weeks.  My income goes farther.

Brian

Tom DeReggi wrote:
Brian,
 
>By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors
 
Thats a big difference. But I'd call that a marketing expense.
 
As for $95 installer....  The catch is wether you can find an installer that guarantees the work.  If he will go out to fix his mistakes for free and guarantee his work, you will make out good for only $95.  Make sure you require him to submit digital pictures of finished work as a criteria to get paid, no matter how good a friend.  What many forget is the cost of management. Management labor can cost more than the actually installtion labor.  By subcontracting out you are also subing out the management headache, so for only $95 its golden.  Subbing is wise when you are starting out, because you'd have many days where employees would be on the clock with nothing to do, if you employed.  The problem is that employment laws prevent you from holding a employee responsible for productivit and results, so to employ, you are going to have to manage them to make sure things get done on schedule. OTherwise the 2 hour install turns into 2 days.  Finding a good installer is anothger story. I'd never be able to find it in my market for that low. Subcontract rates are closer to $400-$500 an install for the quality we are installing.  However, my advise is opposite to what I actually do. We do not sub out, and only employ. We decided quality and reputation was more important. But I'm no where close to accomplishing the install goal of under $95. It costs us half that just for gas and truck expenses.     
 
One of the bigest mistakes you could make is under estimate that cost. Because if you do, every customer you install will put you in a worse financial position. So estimate high, and if you can prove to be efficient down the road, then you can always tweak the business plan lower.
 
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 8:41 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

"In house" for a one man band???  That is what I am.  I thought it would be ok to sub out until I'm ready for the responsibility of employees.  It's easy to sub out a few a week, but to have an employee work so few and such odd hours?  Where do you find someone to do it?

Brian

Rick Smith wrote:
welcome to the real world.   That million will turn into 3 million soon, and your schedule will turn into 4 weeks behind, and word of mouth will start spreading that you're not responsive....    get out and install on your own.
 
This, coming from a guy that subbed out intalls at $100 each until today.   By reading these posts, I'm now convinced that it's all coming back in-house.


From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 1:28 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

Because I have not left the "office" my living room, in 3 days because things keep coming my way.  Computers, paperwork, a million calls.  No customer support issues, just a million things I can't seem to catch up.  And now I'm a few weeks behind on installs.  I don't like being behind.

Brian

JohnnyO wrote:
Brian - why pay out that $95.00 when YOU can go do the install in 2 hours time ? Heck 3 installs = 1 new install paid for .... Sorry - guess Im just cheap and work too much - I suppose we all grow our business differently. I worked 2 full time jobs for the 1st 8 months we were in the WISP game on top of building the WISP......
 
JohnnyO
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Brian Rohrbacher
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:57 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

Let me clarify.  By sales guy, I meant someone who will knock on doors and say "here, this is available in the area, call for details" hand them a door hanger and leave.  I pay my subs a free month for refferals.  I'd give the "door hanger guy" the same, $35 per "sale" unless they were too good at it  :)  Then they would call, and I'd make the "sale".  The "install guy" is a company who I trust.  They will do installs for $95 a head.  I have some more details (4 line paragraph) on my ROI if anyone wants to comment, hit me off list and I'll forward my ROI sheet to you for comment.


Thanks,
Brian


Tom DeReggi wrote:
No. You must do the sales. Trust that to someone else, and you will fail.  It means that you may not be able to do the fun stuff like you thought you'd be doing, but its the reality of a successful business. UNtil you set the stage of how the sales process will go, and set the example of success in selling, it'll be hard to find a sales guy willing to work on commission or that will be worth a darn.  I found that you can't run a WISP with only three people, although many have proven me wrong.  It takes one to sell. It takes one to install. It takes one tech in the office to assist the installer with testing and router provisioning. ( a tech can't get to APs and routers, when the link isn't up yet.  A lot of things will come up, like which sector do you connect to when its near both of them? You don't always know how to configure it until you are onsite.  Then what happens whem the installer needs help, such as someone to hold the ladder for a steep pitched roof?  Then whose gonna answer the phone when the insude tech goes onsite to help the installer?  You need that 4th person!  Then whose gonna do you book keeping? You learn that why should you be doing it, when you time is best spent selling? You surely aren't going to have the techs do your book keeping? When you start to go after the bigger clients, if there isn't someone to answer the phone for every sales request and tech support issue, they get scared and go with the higher staffed more professional competitor.  At first you start by using your cell phone. But then you learn that you can never get a darn thing done when you are answering your cell phone the whole day. So you stop answering it while on sales meetings. Then the callers have outages, amnd have already signed up with the competitor by the time tyou call them back hours later because they thought you went out of business.  So before you know it you need 6 people minimum. Then you look at your payroll that just jumped to $20,000 a month. Then it takes you a few months to get things togeather like marketing material. Then everyone is waiting on you. Then you have a burn rate. You learn that the $20,000 capitol that you had wasn't going to last the first month.  Then you start getting subscribers, but theirs no money left to buy radios. By the time you get the radios three weeks later, the customers got tired of waiting and went with the competitor, so your staff has nothing to do, and you just burn through another $20,000 the next month. Etc. Thats the point most businesses fail.
 
So my advise is... Start out with two people. And use your cell phone for all correspondance. Avoid every technical detail that the tech mentality is enticing you to get involved with, that will just kill your time, no matter how much its tempting you.  Go sell today. Go like that as long as you can, until you have no other choice but to hire.   Then hire ALL the people you need and play to win. IF you under hire, you will just spin your wheel's never getting anything done but managing everyone, and sales stop, but salaries don't, and you go out of business.   
 
Outsource every technical detail upfront, EXPECIALLY MAIL. Your only job can be sales and management. What will determine wether you will succeed is wether you can keep your time allocated more towards sales than management. Management duties will tend to monopolize your time, because they have to be done, and you will continue to loose money until you go out of business. You will learn there are four things you can't outsource in your early years, sales, management,managing your finances (accounting), and lending you money.  Take every opportunity t oearn an extra couple buck on an install like hourly wages to set upo there PCs, and don't get suckered into giving that away for free, you will need every one of thosse dollars to carry you on.  Ifyou leave management to someone else, they will turn your employees against you, and they will make the wrong decissions, and you will have to pick up the peices later, hopefully before its not to late. If you don't do your finances, you won't know you are in trouble financially until its to late, you need to be one with your budget and daily cash intake goals, and there is no way you can do it unless you are intimate with your accounting on a daily basis. You must do the sales because it the #1 most important thing in your business, and at all costs, it is the one thing that MUST be done for you t osurvice, you just can't take a change that it wont be done right. You must make it your business to make sure its done. and lastly finances, no one will lend you money but your self and your mother. So earn your money to fund your business, its the only way you are going to get it. And its going to cost you money.  The small dollar business only last for a little while, the time that you have a few customers and you can do everything your self, without a pay roll, when you are willing to make sacrifices, and its fun to do so. But employees don't work for free, nor do they or there wives share that vison of unconditional loyalty without the montey coming in for long hours worked, they don't have the same high standard as you, because its not their business its yours. When you get to the stage of employing all the rules change. And thats when businesses start to realize the difficulties in running a business.  Staying a one man shop no longer is an option because support of your client base is already more than one person can handle. But because ou undersold your services, there isn;t enough money to pay the salaries to hire the people to support the clients. and you go out of business. 
 
The most important stage of your business is the business plan and that starts way before yuor first hire. And then once you start growing you learn that everything in your business plan was hog wash. The model of 100 new subs a month ends up being 2 new subs a month because there were sales barriers you weren't aware of. You learn the huge flock of customers you got on the first month, was because they were the few needy customers that were easy to access. But then you learn that you need to market to get custeomrs, you learn that the marketing ends up costing more than your equipment. And once again you go out of business.
 
Your mission when you start out, before you make all your hires, is to prove every detail of your business plan valid.  Design a formula that guarantees you can make a certain number of sales within a time period. You need constants in your model. If you can only consistently sell 5 subs a month, that s OK, its a constant, you can make guaranteed business plans with constants. 
 
Sorry for the rant, but the biggest mistake I see in this business is when the operator doesn't realize the importance of sales.  If your name is not on the job description, its a problem. 
 
 
Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
 
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 9:14 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

I am looking into getting two people to help.  One "install guy" and one "sales guy", both on commission.  Then I can be the guy who grows the network to keep up, do site surveys, tower work/deals, and paper work.  Ok plan or no??

Charles Wu wrote:
Just a general word of advice...the biggest pitfall/doom of most startups is
not opportunity, but rather TOO MUCH opportunity...

Watch cash flow closely, and don't bite off more than you can chew

-Charles

-------------------------------------------
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com
August 15-17, 2005

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 7:53 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?


Thats a great way to start. Congradulations.

Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc

IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Brian Rohrbacher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?


  
I just have to find someone to do installs.  I have as many waiting to 
be
hooked up as I have hooked up.  It's there for the taking, but I can't take
    

  
it!  The search for help has started.

Tom DeReggi wrote:

    
Most ISPs shared that plan. But it rarely works that way, when you 
want
to grow your business.


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc

IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband

----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Rohrbacher"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?


      
I plan to be debt free in a year, so I hope to be ok.  Everyone all 
paid
off and ready to roll.

Matt Liotta wrote:

        
I wouldn't worry about it since the way you did it put the 
investors at
risk more so than you. There is a better way to do it and before your 
company gets too successful you may want to visit a lawyer and get 
things cleaned up.

-Matt

Brian Rohrbacher wrote:

          
Just typed up something on the laptop that said, "I owe you "this"
much", and we both signed it.  Not fancy, but a little better than an 
oral agreement.  I won't miss a payment and will pay them back if it 
takes closing the WISP and working 3 jobs.  Missing payments is not an
            

  
option.  Only if I'm laid up in the hospital.  Personal guaranteed? 
Well, I told them I will pay it back...  I know the agreement leaves a
            

  
lot open, but I trust these 4 people.  Anyway, so they are not 
investors.  Lastly, lets just leave me be about this :)  I'd rather 
not try to defend a million questions about what if this and what if 
that. It is what I did and it is done.

Charles Wu wrote:

            
that would be a loan
what type of collateral do they have? or what happens if you miss 
a
payment?
have you personally guaranteed the money?
 -Charles

-------------------------------------------
WISPNOG Park City, UT
http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
August 15-17, 2005

    -----Original Message-----
    *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
    [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brian
Rohrbacher
    *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 10:20 PM
    *To:* WISPA General List
    *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

    Well, I guess we would call them loans as I have all control.
Correct me if I am wrong.  They gave me money at a fixed rate. Loans 
or investments?

    Charles Wu wrote:

              
    well...in determing their "dumbness" (assuming you're willing to
    divulge this information) - what sort of investment / equity
    share / control do your investors have?
         I mean...assuming it's you and the other 4, does 
everyone
have
    an equal share? (which is a different story all together) or
    does 1 single person have a majority share and the other 4 are
    minority partners
         -Charles
         -------------------------------------------
    WISPNOG Park City, UT
    http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
    August 15-17, 2005

        -----Original Message-----
        *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
        [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of *Brian
        Rohrbacher
        *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
        *To:* WISPA General List
        *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

        Well, I guess I found four "dumb" people that got me
        started.  All my start up funds came from 4 people.  All
        four were subs from a previous WISP I  owned,  (before my
        partner took everything over and left me out in the 
cold)
they all said, "I want you providing service, not the "other
        guy".  So here I am.  7 months in and going strong.  Oh,
        almost forgot, like my lawyer has me say......all that is
        just my opinion.  ;-)               I think "dumb" investors
        are great!
                 Charles Wu wrote:

                
        sure
                 a passive minority equity position stake in a
privately
        held company is worthless, as legally, the person with the
        majority stake can make 100% of the decisions (in terms of
        purchasing, spending, cash distribution, etc)
                 think about it, if it was your money, would you be
                  

  
willing
        to just "invest it" into a company when the majority
        partner can do whatever he/she wants to and you have no
        recourse?
                 -Charles
        -------------------------------------------
        WISPNOG Park City, UT
        http://www.wispnog.com <http://www.wispnog.com/>
        August 15-17, 2005

            -----Original Message-----
            *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
            [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] *On Behalf Of
            *Dylan Oliver
            *Sent:* Monday, August 22, 2005 4:10 PM
            *To:* WISPA General List
            *Subject:* Re: [WISPA] Taking on an investor?

            Charles,

            would you expand on that?

            On 8/22/05, *Charles Wu* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
            <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:

                FWIW...no invester (other than friends and family)
                worth their salt will be
                willing to invest capital into the company for a
                minority position, as that
                is basically a sure way to guarantee the loss of
                their money

                That said, there is a fool born every day

                -Charles


            --             Dylan Oliver
            Primaverity, LLC
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