Aftering spending almost 8 weeks trying to get a lease with a rooftop provider,
they come back at us with a request for a business plan and financial statement
before going forward ---

Thoughts? Has anybody had a request like this before? We haven't

Thanks

Dan


> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf
> Of Tony Weasler
> Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:43 PM
> To: WISPA General List
> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cogent - Level3
> 
> On 10/6/2005 1:03 PM, Tom DeReggi created:
> >> To set the record straight, no peering agreements were violated
> >> between L3 and Cogent.
> >
> > I heard otherwise, however I can't prove that.
> 
> Cogent on their own web site said that agreements were not violated:
> 
> "Level 3 terminated its peering with Cogent without cause (as
> permitted under its peering agreement with Cogent) even though both
> Cogent and Level 3 remained in full compliance with the previously
> existing interconnection agreement."
> http://status.cogentco.com/
> 
> >> There is also no confirmed evidence that L3 is
> >> blocking Cogent traffic through Cogent's Verio transit (which Cogent
> >> pays $$ for.)
> >
> > There was evidence. I wish I saved my traceroutes yesterday.
> > To make more clear, Cogent is our backbone.
> > When going to www.logmein.com, the last successfull hop was a peer
> > labelled similar to verio.cogentco.com, meaning we crossed over to
> > Verio's side. (the actual name was more meaningful). Now today, the
> > traffic destined for that site stops cold at the first hop from our
> > network, meaning it does not get routes from Level3 on where to send the
> > data, once we enter Cogent's network.  Unless you are referring that
> > Cogent is blocking any advertised route info from Level3, which is
> > highly unlikely.  If Level3 was allowing our IPs to go through Verio's
> > link, we would receive routes to route our packets in that direction
> > across Cogent's network, and packets would travel further into Cogent's
> > network (such as to the Verio link). If Cogent blocked traffic to Verio,
> > it would most likely block it at the peer, not at the entry to Cogent's
> > network from us as their client.
> 
> This isn't evidence of blocking on L3's side.  It could be because
> Cogent only purchases transit to certain prefixes and L3 isn't one of
> them (and Verio is filtering the announcements.)  It could be because
> Cogent internally uses traffic engineering to prevent L3 traffic from
> reaching them over their Verio transit circuits.  One of the two
> scenarios is likely given their peering arrangement with L3.  I didn't
> see any table entries on the L3 San Diego looking glass for AS174.  I
> saw only one route on their Denver looking glass through AS7018.  Does
> that mean that L3 is filtering or that Cogent's announcements aren't
> reaching L3 for other reasons?  The former is probably correct, but
> that's not something that can be easily demonstrated.  I couldn't find
> a looking glass in AS174 which would allow me to see Cogent's tables
> from the inside.  Cogent does appear to be announcing their Verio link
> to other peers, however.  I see direct announcements for AS174 and an
> announcement for Sprint->Verio->Cogent, but not an AT&T->Cogent path.
> 
> I think that both carriers are at fault.  Both companies should have
> resolved this before it came to reducing connectivity for their
> customers. They both should be held accountable by their customers.  I
> replied to your original post, Tom, because Cogent made a public
> statement which directly contradicted yours and I thought that people
> on the list should have a more complete story [1].  You could be
> entirely correct about there having been a contract violation.  I am
> confident that a considerable amount of money will be wasted trying to
> determine that.
> 
> I fear that because of the the popularity of this issue it will reach
> the ears of the less clueful xEOs at carrier organizations and that
> the current SFI structure could be at risk of being 're-evaluated' in
> favor of paid interconnection.  Most of the scenarios that I can think
> of involving compensation for interconnection lead to higher wholesale
> prices of bandwidth and additional overall system complexity.
> 
> 
> >> It appears that Cogent is unwilling to use this route
> >> because it would force them to pay (Verio) per Mb/s for the
> >> information sent to/from L3's network.  The de-peering was consistent
> >> with the peering agreement between L3 and Cogent according to
> >> http://status.cogentco.com/
> >
> > It stated that, but it is not in actuallity.
> 
> So why would Cogent lie about something that makes them look bad on
> their own public web site?  Many SFI contracts allow for termination
> without cause given enough notice and it is reasonable to assume that
> this one included that type of language.  According to conjecture on
> NANOG, Cogent was given notice >40 days before the disconnect.  In the
> absence of more reliable information I don't have any reason to assume
> otherwise.
> 
> >> Current NANOG consensus (whatever that's worth) is that both companies
> >> are equally responsible for correcting their reachability issues, but
> >> L3 initiated the de-peering process.
> >
> > Agreed.  UNLESS Level3 is actually blocking IPs that were assigned via
> > Cogent apposed to just blocking routes or connections. Unfortuneately I
> > am not in a possition to prove wether our IPs are blocked because we are
> > still single homed with Cogent.  Cogent has so many peers that could
> > transmit our data via alternate paths, and the amount of traffic on our
> > network going to level 3 is so little, that Cogent would be making a
> > poor financial decission not to route our traffic an alternate path
> > based on risking that we would switch to a redundant link to Level3.
> > Its not to Cogent's benefit to not route our traffic financial, so it is
> > only logical that it is Level3 blocking our IPs.  I was also told Level3
> > was blocking our IPs, which is why our IPs could not be re-routed. Sure
> > I can't prove this, but its not looking good for level-3.
> 
> Since there were no announcements for AS174 present in L3's San Diego
> looking glass and there was a route present for them through AS7018
> (AT&T) I think that the reachability issues were caused by routing and
> not IP blocking, but without direct access to the routing
> infrastructure of both carriers, this is difficult to determine.
> 
> Generally, SFI contracts do not allow traffic to transit a peer's
> network to reach a third-party provider.  While technically traffic
> could be allowed to flow from Cogent to PartyA to L3, there is usually
> no financial incentive for PartyA to allow this through an SFI and
> significant financial disincentive to do so.  Verio provides Cogent
> with paid connectivity to certain destinations and theoretically this
> transit could be used to reach L3.  Why this isn't happening is a
> matter of considerable speculation and in the absence of a statement
> from an authoritative source at Cogent will remain so.
> 
> >From Cogent's perspective it makes sense (to them anyway) to prevent
> traffic from reaching L3 through any means other than the SFI
> interconnect(s) because that puts pressure on L3 to bring the SFI up
> again.  Cogent has had other SFI circuits disconnected in the past and
> there is conjecture that if they don't take a stand, others may follow.
> 
> [...]
> 
> Best,
> Tony
> 
> [1] JC Dill recently posted a few more links to other accounts of the
> events:
> ===
> <http://news.com.com/Network+feud+leads+to+Net+blackout/2100-1038_3-
> 5889592.html>
> <http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/68174>
> <http://www.hostingtech.com/?m=show&id=964>
> <http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/newsItem/0,289139,sid7_gci1132045,00.h
> tml>
> 
> and of course the obligatory slashdot thread:
> <http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/05/10/05/2247207.shtml?tid=95&tid=187&tid
> =4>
> ===
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