I would offer them credit references, your landlord, suppliers that you have net 10 or net 30 accounts with and so on.

Nothing more.

Blair


Aubrey Wells wrote:

How is it none of their business? The business plan is none of their
business, but the financials certainly are. Just like any other lease
agreement you enter in to (car, house, apartment, whatever) they want to
make sure you can pay up before they give you the lease.

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Smith
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:47 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] rooftop leasing?


None of their business.   We had a request like this, and claimed that
it was unfair business practice, and the landlord dropped their request
for such information.
Probably ended up costing us that extra $100 / month but our financial
statements are no one's business.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Dan Metcalf
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 5:11 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] rooftop leasing?

Aftering spending almost 8 weeks trying to get a lease with a rooftop
provider, they come back at us with a request for a business plan and
financial statement before going forward ---

Thoughts? Has anybody had a request like this before? We haven't

Thanks

Dan


-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Weasler
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 3:43 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Cogent - Level3

On 10/6/2005 1:03 PM, Tom DeReggi created:
To set the record straight, no peering agreements were violated between L3 and Cogent.
I heard otherwise, however I can't prove that.
Cogent on their own web site said that agreements were not violated:

"Level 3 terminated its peering with Cogent without cause (as permitted under its peering agreement with Cogent) even though both Cogent and Level 3 remained in full compliance with the previously existing interconnection agreement."
http://status.cogentco.com/

There is also no confirmed evidence that L3 is blocking Cogent traffic through Cogent's Verio transit (which Cogent pays $$ for.)
There was evidence. I wish I saved my traceroutes yesterday.
To make more clear, Cogent is our backbone.
When going to www.logmein.com, the last successfull hop was a peer labelled similar to verio.cogentco.com, meaning we crossed over to Verio's side. (the actual name was more meaningful). Now today, the traffic destined for that site stops cold at the first hop from our network, meaning it does not get routes from Level3 on where to send

the data, once we enter Cogent's network. Unless you are referring that Cogent is blocking any advertised route info from Level3, which

is highly unlikely. If Level3 was allowing our IPs to go through Verio's link, we would receive routes to route our packets in that direction across Cogent's network, and packets would travel further into Cogent's network (such as to the Verio link). If Cogent blocked

traffic to Verio, it would most likely block it at the peer, not at the entry to Cogent's network from us as their client.
This isn't evidence of blocking on L3's side. It could be because Cogent only purchases transit to certain prefixes and L3 isn't one of them (and Verio is filtering the announcements.) It could be because Cogent internally uses traffic engineering to prevent L3 traffic from reaching them over their Verio transit circuits. One of the two scenarios is likely given their peering arrangement with L3. I didn't

see any table entries on the L3 San Diego looking glass for AS174. I saw only one route on their Denver looking glass through AS7018. Does

that mean that L3 is filtering or that Cogent's announcements aren't reaching L3 for other reasons? The former is probably correct, but that's not something that can be easily demonstrated. I couldn't find

a looking glass in AS174 which would allow me to see Cogent's tables from the inside. Cogent does appear to be announcing their Verio link

to other peers, however. I see direct announcements for AS174 and an announcement for Sprint->Verio->Cogent, but not an AT&T->Cogent path.

I think that both carriers are at fault. Both companies should have resolved this before it came to reducing connectivity for their customers. They both should be held accountable by their customers. I

replied to your original post, Tom, because Cogent made a public statement which directly contradicted yours and I thought that people on the list should have a more complete story [1]. You could be entirely correct about there having been a contract violation. I am confident that a considerable amount of money will be wasted trying to

determine that.

I fear that because of the the popularity of this issue it will reach the ears of the less clueful xEOs at carrier organizations and that the current SFI structure could be at risk of being 're-evaluated' in favor of paid interconnection. Most of the scenarios that I can think

of involving compensation for interconnection lead to higher wholesale

prices of bandwidth and additional overall system complexity.


It appears that Cogent is unwilling to use this route because it would force them to pay (Verio) per Mb/s for the information sent to/from L3's network. The de-peering was consistent with the peering agreement between L3 and Cogent according to http://status.cogentco.com/
It stated that, but it is not in actuallity.
So why would Cogent lie about something that makes them look bad on their own public web site? Many SFI contracts allow for termination without cause given enough notice and it is reasonable to assume that this one included that type of language. According to conjecture on NANOG, Cogent was given notice >40 days before the disconnect. In the

absence of more reliable information I don't have any reason to assume

otherwise.

Current NANOG consensus (whatever that's worth) is that both companies are equally responsible for correcting their reachability

issues, but
L3 initiated the de-peering process.
Agreed. UNLESS Level3 is actually blocking IPs that were assigned via Cogent apposed to just blocking routes or connections. Unfortuneately I am not in a possition to prove wether our IPs are blocked because we are still single homed with Cogent. Cogent has so many peers that could transmit our data via alternate paths, and the amount of traffic on our network going to level 3 is so little, that Cogent would be making a poor financial decission not to route our traffic an alternate path based on risking that we would switch
to a redundant link to Level3.
Its not to Cogent's benefit to not route our traffic financial, so it is only logical that it is Level3 blocking our IPs. I was also told Level3 was blocking our IPs, which is why our IPs could not be re-routed. Sure I can't prove this, but its not looking good for
level-3.
Since there were no announcements for AS174 present in L3's San Diego looking glass and there was a route present for them through AS7018
(AT&T) I think that the reachability issues were caused by routing and

not IP blocking, but without direct access to the routing infrastructure of both carriers, this is difficult to determine.

Generally, SFI contracts do not allow traffic to transit a peer's network to reach a third-party provider. While technically traffic could be allowed to flow from Cogent to PartyA to L3, there is usually

no financial incentive for PartyA to allow this through an SFI and significant financial disincentive to do so. Verio provides Cogent with paid connectivity to certain destinations and theoretically this transit could be used to reach L3. Why this isn't happening is a matter of considerable speculation and in the absence of a statement from an authoritative source at Cogent will remain so.

From Cogent's perspective it makes sense (to them anyway) to prevent
traffic from reaching L3 through any means other than the SFI
interconnect(s) because that puts pressure on L3 to bring the SFI up again. Cogent has had other SFI circuits disconnected in the past and

there is conjecture that if they don't take a stand, others may
follow.
[...]

Best,
Tony

[1] JC Dill recently posted a few more links to other accounts of the
events:
===
<http://news.com.com/Network+feud+leads+to+Net+blackout/2100-1038_3-
5889592.html>
<http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/68174>
<http://www.hostingtech.com/?m=show&id=964>
<http://searchnetworking.techtarget.com/newsItem/0,289139,sid7_gci1132
045,00.h
tml>

and of course the obligatory slashdot thread:
<http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/05/10/05/2247207.shtml?tid=95&tid
=187&tid
=4>
===
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