Mark, While I can appreciate the perspective that you are coming from in your desire to not fill out the Form 477, I think you are completely off base. This is an information gathering form, not an invitation to regulation. Government needs information to put together policy. If we can't document that our industry is making some kind of impact on the digital divide and building something of value to the public, then how can we expect to get any more spectrum? This is the closest thing to a census for our industry. The census numbers are used to develop policy, define failure or success and attack or defend positions. If you think that changing the name of the kind of service you offer and pretending to be ignorant of the need to fill this form out is going to be the best way for you to proceed, then you might want to consider relocating to Montana. There is a well established community there that doesn't believe in paying taxes, hoards guns and practices all kinds of anti-establishment activities. You can probably get a great deal on T. Kaczynski's cabin out there. If we are going to pick a fight with the administration, lets do it over something meaningful - not a frickin informational form!
Matt Larsen

Mark Koskenmaki writes:

----- Original Message ----- From: "John Scrivner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <>
Sent: Friday, February 03, 2006 2:03 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] It's been a long road

I know what you think about the government and that it will not change.
I am no different than you in my belief that a hands off approach is
best. I mean that wholeheartedly. There is one distinct difference
between you and me. I have resolved myself to know that the government
has made the Internet and broadband a policy issue in all branches and
at all levels. I see state and federal laws being made, judicial cases
being tried in court, loans and grants issued and mandates being
executed every single day. In short, the battle you are trying to fight
is lost.

I don't think all is lost... not yet.   I've been trying to make the point
there's STILL a long ways downhill... Let's start resisting.
I will never tell you that you are not entitled to believe what
you want and take whatever stand you feel is justified so long as it
does not harm me or others. However, I will not accept your position as
a direction for my company and I will oppose it within the WISPA
organization because I believe your attempts to ignore FCC requirements
are dangerous and anti-productive to our efforts to interface with the
government to make sure policy interests are represented on behalf of
the WISP industry.

I've not advocated "ignoring" them.   I am advocating we collectively tell
the FCC that is NOT proper for them to demand that much detail of our
businesses and customers, since they do NOT regulate our access, operation,
etc.   They have no legal oversight, in my view, and we should make this
clear to them.   That is the precise opposite of "ignoring" them.   That's
taking proactive action and doing what we're here to do...  tell THEM what
we think!
As far as this goes, I would happily give this info to WISPA, and support
WISPA's gathering of demographic info that the FCC seems to want, as an
alternative to federal intrusion.   Just so long as what I consider to be
confidential information doesn't go anywhere else, I"m fine with it.
 Ignoring and accusing those you wish to influence is
bad politics, Mark.

Yes, it is. Why are you accusing me, then, of things I have not done?
 That is why I am aggressively countering your
position on this publicly. I personally wish that your snubbing of the
FCC was done outside of WISPA public list servers.

Really.   If it can't even be asked and debated, what people think about the
idea, then WISPA long ago lost its purpose, before it got started.    This,
after all, IS a public list, and if people cannot air what they think of
something here, then nowhere can it be done to any purpose, and apparently,
from now on, WISPA lists are only for
non-disagreeing-with-John-Scrivener-conversations?    I don't think you
intend that.  So let's not get carried away.  That WISPA members vehemently
disagree with something the FCC took upon itself to do SHOULD be a matter of
public record.   And if the membership wants,  an official position by WISPA
should probably be publicly made, as well.
 This is MY position
though so do as you please for now. Take heed that I will lobby for your
public stance of breaking the law to become a basis for punitive action
within WISPA in the future if a majority within this organization agree
with me. If all of WISPA thinks we should allow the list to be used to

So, if I rename my services, and call it something other than broadband
access, or I define my services so they do not require reporting under
current rules, you'll ask to have me be removed. Interesting twist.
lobby for people to break the law then my days here will be numbered. I
will not be a party to your "tea" party over filling out a broadband
registration form or any other conspiracy driven stance toward breaking
the law.

I have not, I repeat NOT advocated breaking the law.   Nowhere have I said
"Nobody should fill this out".   I said I would bypass the law, possibly, by
simply renaming and re-focusing my services.  And if the FCC steps in with
attempts to regulate how I define what I do, I will simply close up shop,
after telling my customers it has become illegal to serve them.  I have
tried to get some kind of conversation going to see what WISP's in general
on the list think of the idea, and where it's going.    This seems
disturbing to you.   Could it be that if we polled the members, a majority
may not agree with you?
In short Mark, I want you to stop telling people they should
break the law.

This is where my question above comes in.   I have NOT advocated breaking
the law.   I said WISPA should in effect, tell the FCC they are WAY out of
bounds on this.  Your advocacy of this intrusion is so total, I'm beginning
to wonder if it wasn't you guys who prompted them to do it in the first
place... which I would consider to be a betrayal of us WISP's, the public,
AND the country.   WISPA is not and will not be "what Scrivner and Schaffer
think",  it'll be what the members think..  That's what it will represent -
I hope.   In the meantime, squelching disagreement isn't going to serve
WISPA, you, or me.   I really don't think that you should fear disagreement
on a public listserve.  After all, WISPA is not responsible for the opinions
expressed here, and if people c an't grasp that, there's really no hope
anyway.   As long as we keep this civil and really do discuss ideas their
merits, as it relates to WISP issues, how can it be bad?

 You are doing us harm and I want you to stop doing this
publicly. We formed WISPA to interface with the FCC and Congress on
helping direct policy, not to ignore, shun and accuse those
institutions. Please stop now.

If this means that one is not able to publicly disagree with FCC policy from
now on and be associated with WISPA,  I think we're all going to have to
leave eventually - becuase I KNOW that in some form or another, all of us
are going have disagreement with FCC policy and rules.   I don't think this
is what you're intending.
A word of advice... Don't jump to conclusions that aren't warranted and
accuse people based upon those assumptions.   I try to say precisely what I
mean, and mean precisely what I say.   You cannot arrive at the truth by
assuming that I am implying anything.  Take my words at face value, and I,
in turn, will do my best to do the same.

Mark Koskenmaki wrote:

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