I think the general thinking is that WISP's shouldn't have to pay to make the Governments' job easier...
John >-----Original Message----- >From: Sam Tetherow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Monday, June 5, 2006 11:29 AM >To: 'WISPA General List' >Subject: Re: [WISPA] Why's WISPA silent about this? 2 diferent issues at hand > >I want to preface this email with the statement that I ABSOLUTELY DO NOT >support this law, it is an invasion of privacy and places an undue >burden of responsibility on an ISP. > >Now that being said, as I read the article, and as some have pointed out >the information being requested for archive is merely websites visited >and email address sent to. This information is trivial to gather and >really not that burdensome to archive. I currently run about 4Mbps-5Mbps >of traffic from 8am to midnight and a months worth of these logs >uncompressed only takes up about 7G of space. Compression will save me >60% of that so it is more like 3G for a month of 4-5Mbps. This fits >nicely on a single DVD-R for achiving once a month. Even scaling this up >to 30X the traffic for a DVD/day gets you 120-150Mbps daily average traffic. > >Your total cost on something like this would be >1. a Mikrotik box (or any router that supports the netflow protocol) to >sit right before your edge router (or as your edge router). >2. A PC to capture the data with a DVD+-R drive total cost < $500. >3. And then a spindle of DVD media at ~ $15/100 DVDs. > >This puts the grand total in at well under $2000 one time cost and then >whatever personnel cost you want to assign to burning a DVD once a >month, or if you are lucky enough to have enough customers to require >120Mbps, once a day. > >I think it is important if we are going to draft something up to address >this issue that we address it with facts. For most ISPs coming up with >the money to achieve this while a PITA is not going to cause the >business to go bankrupt. I achieved this using equipment I already have >in place. My DS3 MT router sends the netflow data to the box I use for >system/network monitoring. I currently do not archive this data to DVD >because I have only been collecting it for a month, but I highly doubt I >will unless required to by law. The only reason I collect this data is >for IP accounting and troubleshooting and will probably keep no more >than a month or two of the full data. But it sure comes in handy when a >customer calls up and says that they haven't had internet for the past 2 >weeks and I can pull up the charts that show they have. Or they say that >things have been running real slow lately and I can look at the flow >data and see that their kids have been using P2P applications or doing >large FTP downloads. > >Sam Tetherow >Sandhills Wireless > >Butch Evans wrote: >> On Sun, 4 Jun 2006, George Rogato wrote: >> >>> 1) Does the government have a right to know the actions of Americans >>> on the internet? >> >> This is not really at issue. At least it is not really of any concern >> for us here. >> >>> 2) Is this a responsibility of the ISP to bear the burden of >>> gathering this information or should the burden be carried by the >>> feds themselves with little or no cost to the ISP? >> >> THIS is the real issue that ISPs face. The problem that we all have >> with this is multifaceted. First, (and perhaps most importantly) is >> the cost that many ISPs will face to comply with the requirements. In >> many cases, this cost will be both direct (for hardware) and indirect >> (network reconfiguration). Also, many ISPs are set up in such a way >> that compliance will be nearly impossible. Let me provide just a >> couple examples. >> >> First, many ISPs use private IP space internally for their customers. >> For these ISPs, any monitoring done by an outside entity (i.e. AT&T) >> will be completely useless. >> >> Another example, would be the many ISPs that have several diverse >> networks. I have several customers that have 3 or 4 distinct networks >> (one has 8). These ISPs would be required to store this data in either >> one location, or purchase the equipment for each network. >> >> It is my belief that WISPA should create a stance against any >> requirement for WISPs to store customer traffic patterns for any >> period. The very idea is hideously un-American in the first place. Be >> that as it may, it is technically difficult, and financially unfair >> for many smaller ISPs to have to store this information at all. >> >>> This thread started out as we should not be allowing the government >>> to know our every move. This is a political discussion that can not >>> and should not be decided by an ISP, but rather the entire country. >>> We don't have any jurisdiction on issues such as this. >> >> George, this is one area where we disagree. This is NOT a "political >> discussion". This is an issue that directly impacts every ISP >> (wireless or wired). It is, perhaps, true that the political >> implications are what Mark was driving at, but the issue at hand is >> NOT political in nature. It IS financial and technical. >> >>> We do however have a right to contest who is responsible for the >>> burden of gathering this information. >> >> OK. If that is the case, wouldn't you agree that this is something >> that SHOULD be addressed by WISPA? I don't agree with much that Mark >> had to say (really, it was the "implications" he made that I disagreed >> with), but his point that there should be SOME action on the part of >> WISPA is one that I do agree with. >> > > >-- > Sam Tetherow > Sandhills Wireless > >-- >WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org > >Subscribe/Unsubscribe: >http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless > >Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ > -- WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org Subscribe/Unsubscribe: http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
