Just a FYI, I would not be purchasing ANY of the equipment in most cases.
3-6 months of each customers monthly reoccurring, and I am taking over your
costs on the towers.  That's about it.  Now if your network has standards,
as mine has MTs for APs only, and such, or any other brand, I would look at
that as, ya that equipment is worth "something"  Even if it was MTs, a tower
with 3 sectors and a backhaul would only be worth, what 500 to 1000 in a buy
out.  That's assuming that it is all working and the subs are the same.  If
I had to buy proprietary gear to add customers, then I would maybe even drop
that price a bit.    

What I am trying to say is that the gear really don't matter, it's the subs
and the leases.  The leases are a liability, they cost, so I am not going to
"purchase" a lease from someone.  I will purchase what equipment is up
there, and the subs they are off of.  But most likely would swap that out at
the time of takeover.  (Been thinking of this lately)

Dennis Burgess, MCP, CCNA, A+, N+, Mikrotik Certified
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.2kwireless.com
 
2K Wireless provides high-speed internet access, along with network
consulting for WISPs, and business's with a focus on TCP/IP networking,
security, and Mikrotik routers.

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Saturday, December 02, 2006 12:01 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

I appreciate the honest criticism, really, but the situation about your
network being at an equity disadvantage is very real. You CAN sell it,
but you won't find many eager buyers and you won't get a good price. An
Alvarion network does bring a higher value. I'm sure Moto networks may
fetch an okay price (not as high as an Alvarion network). But, and this
is the reality, an 802.11b network has a much lower equity value. An
802.11 network using illegal gear will have an even worse value. That's
just reality and I will try to get validation from one or two of the
roll-up guys I know and I'll ask if I can quote him. ...(I've placed him
in the bcc, hopefully he is around this weekend to extend his opinion.)

Regards,

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Smith
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 9:19 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

Why can't I sell what I've built ?    Because it doesn't brag on the
Alvarion name ?  Please.

As for growth path, I've got rooftop leases for these repeaters.
They're
legally guaranteed for 30 yrs in most cases.  Sheesh, in some cases, the
houses will fall down before the equipment dies.

I noticed that you pointed out the CX-BA-2.4-900 stuff.  That's all fine
and
good.   Oranges to Oranges, its WAYYYY more expensive to use Alvarion,
and
by $1000's.  CX 2.4/900 repeater is like $2,000 or more.  Same
functionality
with Mikrotik and Ubiquiti is around $500.  So, the way I see it, I can
put
4 repeaters up, and cover 4 times the area that I can with one CX
repeater.
AND, my tower side cost me $2,000 less as well!   So, $5,000 spent = 1
customer and repeater with tower side on Alvarion, or 9 customers with
repeaters and tower side with Mikrotik / Ubiquiti, AND I've got 9
repeaters
out there touching a ton more customers.

With Mikrotik, I've got firewalling / vpn / qos / bandwidth metering /
HOTSPOT / OSPF / WDS / and a routed network all the way to each
customer, OR
a bridged network if I should so choose.

Why would I have any less a path for growth or satisfactory exit in
putting
together Mikrotik solutions as opposed to Alvarion ?  
Cost of implementation's cheaper.
Cost of replacement's cheaper.
Cost of value added services are cheaper, AND implemented with only a
phone
call from the customer or even a hotspot implementation.
Future bandwidth's "just there" - no manufacturer throttling to pay to
upgrade like Alvarion
Mikrotik doesn't tell me what I can't do - they put it all there and let
you
decide.  No unlock extortion.

Actually, I just sold a chunk of my Pennsylvania network, that was still
in
a build-up phase, with tower sites installed and a couple customers, for
some cash that's going to run the rest of my network for a while.  Whole
thing was built on Canopy and Mikrotik tower sides and cpe's.  

Ya know, there IS one product I'll use religiously from Alvarion and
it's
the 2.4 DS11 backhaul units.  Rock solid, decently priced (on the used
market) and it's truly install-and-forget-it's-there stuff.    

I just don't see the financial advantage to spending anything else on
Alvarion gear though.  Especially when I've got high speed backhauls,
short
and long distance backhauls, multiple frequency ranges, including
licensed
and public safety, LOS, NLOS and hotspot / billing / etc all built into
one
platform that doesn't cost a ton of money, and there's a lot of good
support
for.   

I don't see how that's bad business.

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:54 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

It is interesting Rick and creative, but with all due respect, you are
not
building a network that you are going to be able to sell most likely or
at
least certainly not for a good price. As well, you can't offer advanced
services if you want to grow into them. Rick, it is a serious
question: what is your path for growth and/or path to have a
satisfactory
exit?

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Rick Smith
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 7:35 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

There's no license fees if you're buying routerboards for Mikrotik.

Also, add 2.4 cards (SR2) and cabling / antenna at each client, and
you've
now built a mesh, so to speak, with coverage off each customer to new
customers.

Those setups add about $200 here and there when you do the repeaters.
But
again,
Alvarion can't touch $500 for 900 CPE and 2.4 AP all on one POE cable.

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Patrick Leary
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:27 PM
To: Joe Laura; WISPA General List
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

It is a fair question and what I would say is that the AU is an even
more
critical point in the network. Our AUs have options to be inserted into
chassis with redundant power supplies, etc. The difference in cost of
the AU
is minimal when working out the entire cost of the sector and its
clients,
especially when working in the OPEX issues.

For example, OPEX aside, let's say you are in the AlvarionCOMNET program
and
buy at the minimum level of 25 CPE, which would get you a $285/CPE cost
with
free shipping. Let's assume all 25 of those attach to a VL sector. In
that
case the sector will cost you about $1900 plus $285 x 25, or $9,025. The
equivalent size network at Mikrotik with the prices in this thread would
be
$348 x 25 + the $500 AU or $9,200 + shipping.
So, not even counting the OPEX issues, reduced truck roll, and shipping
we
are $175 cheaper. Then add in the 1 year free warranty, domestic
support,
FCC legality, and higher equity value of the network. Let's not forget
no
user license fees, no fee for new software upgrades.

Is my math wrong? The business equation seems simple unless I am
seriously
missing something.

Patrick Leary
AVP WISP Markets
Alvarion, Inc.
o: 650.314.2628
c: 760.580.0080
Vonage: 650.641.1243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Laura
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 5:52 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

But is your A/P under $500.00 like the RB532 and SR9? K, Im just
kidding.
Its Friday.
Superior Wireless
New Orleans,La.
www.superior1.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Leary" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 7:20 PM
Subject: RE: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients


Dang, that's as much as $100 more than a real BreezeACCESS CPE (under
the
AlvarionCOMNET program) without needing to piece things together so the
points of failure risk and truck roll is both much smaller, not to
mention a
warranty and domestic supply and support. VL CPE comes with mounting
hardware too and the cable. Our stuff is also all fully FCC legal.

(donning flame suit now)

- Patrick

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tom DeReggi
Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:51 AM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients

Exactly, after you add the rootenna,  you are at $348, plus
International
Shipping charges (if in US).


Tom DeReggi
RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc
IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband


----- Original Message -----
From: "cw" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:11 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] 900 Mhz Mikrotik SR9 Clients


> http://www.star-v3.com/store/
>
> $262 ea in ten packs + roo.
>
> Rick Smith wrote:
>> Where are people buying their SR9 client setups, if at all ?
>>  What kind of pricing per "CPE"
>>  I'm looking at a couple places, and coming back with like $350 each
for
>> a
>> rootenna / cable / SR9 / P.S. and RB112  Anyone see anything 
>> different ?
>>  R
>>
> --
> WISPA Wireless List: wireless@wispa.org
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