I am going to be specific here

What mechanism do you have in place to 'protect' your network from the person 
that downloads 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. If you sold me a connection that 
was 256k for $39.99 I would feel that I have a right to use it as much as I 
want.

I am not saying bit cap, I am saying tiered pricing. I am sure that most here 
can break their clients into 3 groups;

1. the people that rarely use their Internet, possibly 300-500 megabytes per 
month.

2. The average user that probably uses 2-5 Gigabytes per month.

3. The bandwidth hog that is using 20 Gigs plus per month and complains when 
their speed teest falls for 5 k bits per second.

My argument is that ISPs need to have a mechanism to make the people in the 
last group either pay their fair share, or go somewhere else.

John


>-----Original Message-----
>From: Sam Tetherow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Monday, January 29, 2007 11:46 PM
>To: 'WISPA General List'
>Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
>
>I'm sure much of this will already have been covered (been out for a
>couple of days).  But since it was addressed to me....
>
>Don't know the details of the truck driver story, but if it wasn't his
>responsibility all he needs to do is leave the truck blocking the
>loading dock and walk into the store and ask the manager to call his
>boss and they can get it sorted from there.
>
>As for the pickles, if Walmart decides all they want to pay for a gallon
>of pickles is 3.97 that is their right.  No one is forcing anyone to
>sell at 3.97.
>
>The legislature of CA is costing CA millions of dollars each year, not
>Walmart.  If the legislature wants to pick up the tab for workers who
>aren't insured by their employer that is their own fault.  Are you going
>to complain about every other business in CA that doesn't insure their
>employees?
>
>A little bit of research on the internet will also fill me in about
>black helicopters and tinfoil hats...
>
>The trick is conveying to your customer what your plan is in terms that 
>they understand.  I'm in a primarily residential market and compete with
>DSL.  The selling point of my service, is just that service.  I still
>have to compete with Qwest pricing but I only have to be close on cost
>to speed and sell them on the service.  It isn't that hard to sell
>service vs the phone company.
>
>But I have to disagree with everyone that is on the bitcap bandwagon.  I
>understand fully the issues that come with p2p and streaming video but
>that is what is driving the internet today.
>
>I take pride in providing the internet to my customers and I want to
>provide the type of internet service I would expect from my connection. 
>
>The internet is no longer about web pages and email it is about
>podcasts, video streams and downloaded movies and if we aren't ready to 
>provide that type of service they we are just relagating ourselves to
>being the new dialup with 128K plans and draconian bandwidth policies.
>
>I don't see bit metering (paying by the bit not on a transfer rate) as
>being a billing model for the future because every other communication
>model is trending away from it and I doubt the customer will put up with
>it given a choice.  Phone service is abandoning the per minute pricing
>for pricing plans which are tending toward unlimited minutes (mobile to 
>mobile, home network, after hours).
>
>Also as more and more services migrate to the internet people are not
>going to want to worry about their bit caps.  The idea of having to look
>at the file size of a netflix movie download and they try to figure out 
>how much it is going to cost me to download (above the netflix cost)
>reminds me all to much of the old dailup days when we were paying by the
>minute.
>
>As a businessman you should be trying to squeeze every last dime out of 
>your customers.  The trick is to provide the service that will make them
>want to pay every last dime of it.
>
>    Sam Tetherow
>    Sandhills Wireless
>
>John J. Thomas wrote:
>> Sam, Walmart has made most of its money by screwing others.
>>
>> Truck driver makes delivery to Walmart ad unload pallets. Goes to have 
>> receiving sign for them. Receiving refuses to sign, and says that *after* 
>> the truck driver *unloads* the items off the pallets, then he will sign. 
>> This is NOT the truck drivers responsibility.
>>
>> Walmart decides that a Gallon jar of pickles shoud cost $3.97-*regardless* 
>> of whether the company can make 10 cents on that. Company sells $3.97 jar of 
>> pickles and goes bankrupt after that.
>>
>> Walmart is costing the State of California Millions of dollars each year 
>> just by telling its employees " we won't give you that benefit, but if you 
>> go apply for State assistance, they will."
>>
>> A little bit of research on the Internet will show you to what degree they 
>> have gone to to screw others. If that is the way you want to do business, 
>> then so be it. Me, my family and anyone else I have influence over won't do 
>> business with you-period.
>>
>> You have to structure your pricing in a way that you can successfully 
>> market. I have a problem with those people that say "512k unlimited $39.99 
>> per month". Then, when you download a single movie, they cut your service. 
>> That is Dishonesty-period. If you tell your clients, 4 Gig for $39.99, then 
>> there is no issue. I'm sure MANY are going to jump in and tell me I'm wrong, 
>> and they certainly have a right to. At some point, this will have to be the 
>> way it works-you can't sell unlimited pipes for $39.99 per month, when you 
>> have to pay $100 or more per month-the economics are not there.
>>
>> I applaud Marlon for what he is doing, and I hope that he will review his 
>> pricing regularly. If he finds that he can drop the rates a bit, or adjust 
>> the limits upward, I'm sure his clients will appreciate it. They should also 
>> appreciate that fact that he isn't trying to squeeze every last dime from 
>> them.
>>
>> John Thomas
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sam Tetherow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 25, 2007 10:49 PM
>>> To: 'WISPA General List'
>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] Service Offerings - Competing
>>>
>>> There actually are some of us out here that don't have this luxury in
>>> our markets.  My total market is approximately 3000 people (not
>>> households) and I have to go 45 miles in any direction to find another
>>> town with more than 80 people in it.
>>>
>>> I'm not saying this in a 'woe is me' tone, just stating a fact.  Some of
>>> us operate in the well under 10,000 people areas where 'finding a higher
>>> ARPU customer' is not really a viable option.  We have to be all things
>>> in order to have enough customers to pay the bills.  The top 10% of my
>>> market would get me less than 100 customers and they would have an
>>> average income of less than $100K.
>>>
>>> As a slightly off-topic aside:  (those that don't want to listen to my
>>> ramblings can safely stop here :)
>>>
>>> I do find the Walmart reference interesting.  Since I have started this
>>> business I have tried to read as much as I can in terms of business, 
>>> marketing  and sales books.  Having come from a purely tech background
>>> it astounds me how clueless I really was until I started a business.
>>>
>>> One of the things that I have struggled with is the price point vs
>>> service aspect of the business.  Obviously being the cheapest option has
>>> it's sales advantages, especially in the residential best effort
>>> internet business.  But as we all know, being the cheapest makes it a
>>> bit harder to pay the bills.
>>>
>>> When I read business and marketing books they all espouse the higher end
>>> customer is the better customer view.  I understand this view, you have
>>> a valued customer who is willing to pay a reasonable price for quality
>>> service.  You look at brands like Lexus and Bose and think, these are
>>> the people I need to be like.  These companies have made millionaires.
>>>
>>> But what I find interesting is that companies like Walmart and McDonalds
>>> who do live in the quantity, not quality world have made billionaires.
>>> The trick seems to be, if you can somehow manages to be the cheapest and
>>> do it right you can make a boat load of money and it doesn't have to be
>>> at the expense of the customer.
>>>
>>>  Sam Tetherow
>>>  Sandhills Wireless
>>>
>>> Peter R. wrote:
>>>
>>>> John J. Thomas wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> But, the model will work if you bill by the bytes....
>>>>>
>>>>> If Joe is paying $40 per month for 6 Gig and gets throttled at 6 Gig,
>>>>> then he has a disincentive for keeping going. If he is paying $40 for
>>>>> unlimited access, he has no reason to slow down.
>>>>>
>>>>> Charter cable is doing 10 meg down/1 meg up in some markets for like
>>>>> $99 per month, how can you compete with that?
>>>>>
>>>>> John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> Well, the reality is this: you can't compete with it.  And why try?
>>>> Why not move upstream to a larger ARPU customer?
>>>> Cable & ILEC can handle and deliver service to the masses cheaply - 
>>>> for now.
>>>> But there is a segment of every population that needs more than the 
>>>> cheap dumb pipe attached to the cheap dumb support. That is the GAP.
>>>> That is where the money is.
>>>>
>>>> That is where your market is. But it may mean selling beyond just a pipe.
>>>>
>>>> I've been preaching this for years - and clients that have listened -
>>>> narrowed their focus; but the shotgun (marketing) away; have done well..
>>>>
>>>> See articles here:  http://www.rad-info.net/newsletters/walmart16.htm
>>>> And there:    http://www.rad-info.net/newsletters/winninger.htm
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Peter Radizeski
>>>> RAD-INFO, Inc.
>>>> (813) 963-5884
>>>>
>>> --
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>>
>>
>>
>
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