----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 9:58 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] My Hypothetical Conversation with Julius Knapp,
ChiefofOET
Marlon,
Thank you for your very interesting post. I would have to say that I agree
with most of the sentiments that you've expressed. There is however ONE
point that perhaps you would clarify. You said that you have operators in
your area "running illegal networks... and the WHOLE market is suffering
due to their massive amounts of interference". Is this interference due
to:
a) The "bad" operators are using uncertified equipment that is "dirty" -
thats radiating high-power spurious emissions that are either too loud or
too wide in frequency or both?
Too many options :-).
b) The baddes are exceeding the + 36 dBm EIRP limit?
They either have a tower that is NOT on the hill and I just haven't found
yet. Or, yeah, they are WAY over the eirp limit. I pick their system up at
a higher signal level than my own even when pointed 30 to 40 * away from
them. It's amazing.
I've not taken the time to track this down yet as the calls have really just
started to come in AND I've only recently learned that at least one of the
other competitors systems up on the hill is getting killed in the evenings
when we all hit peak hours.
I think that what's happening is that their system is so loud that as soon
as it gets busy at all our radios can't hear each other. The problem
affects the close in customers but really seems to hit the long distance
ones hard.
I've been swamped with installs though. I keep hoping for a couple of days
off so I can devote some time to this without the risk of missed
opportunity. But I may just have to carve out a chunk of time anyway.
c) Dirty buggers were/are ignorant of other in-service WISPs and are
operating on frequencies that were already in use by the other WISPs,
thereby causing interference to the other WISPs?
They arent' ignorant. I've talked to the owner. He's the biggest, um, well
you figure out a really bad word for him and mine's worse, I've run into in
a very long time. He called ME up one time and chewed me out in a mannor
that would have done my old drill instructor proud. For what? For
explaining the part 15 rules to the owner of a tower that he rents. Seems
that this guy causes nothing but trouble everywhere he goes. Eventually
he'll run out of money or suckers to get more from. But until then, we keep
re designing our sites near him to deal with his noise. We're now down to a
30* sectored solution that's running as hot as I can make it without going
over the rules. I think we're about 35 or 36 dB. From my signal checks,
he's either a few miles closer to the customers (hard to do when the tower
is only 4 miles away already) or is cranking out somewhere in the 40 to 45
dB range.
Or, I've got my facts all messed up and there's something else going on up
on the hill that no one has figured out yet.
I did turn this guy in to the FCC once already. The enforcement agent told
me that he'd never been talked to like he was by this guy. What a jerk.
The good news is that I've seen guys like this before. Eventually they all
disapear.
That help?
marlon
Thank you for any clarifications that you can add.
jack
Marlon K. Schafer wrote:
I remember clear back in 2001 or so. I was fortunate enough to have
breakfast with Michael Marcus. Patrick, i think you were there for this.
I remember him telling the story about FCC certified computers. Back in
the day, it was only legal to sell a computer as a complete certified
system. Then along came Michael Dell. He said, screw the rules, they are
stupid. He started selling anyone any combination of certified components
that they wanted. Soon, there were so many systems out there that were
NOT causing interference issues that it was completely impossible to put
the genie back in the bottle.
Out of that comes today's way to buy a computer. The COMPONENT gets
certified, you mix and match them all you want.
As I recall, Mike M. said that they (the FCC) knew that SOME combinations
WOULD cause a problem. But that the likely hood of it being an issue was
outweighed by the benefits of the new rules.
We've already had one adjustment on the part 15 certification rules
lately. And it was sorely needed. I remember calling the FCC and talking
to John Reed. One of the guys that WROTE the FCC rules. Back in 1999
when I get started it as ILLEGAL for me to use an Andrew antenna on a
BreezeCOM system. Even though Andrew made the antennas and all BreezeCOM
did was put a different sticker on them.
I remember more than one argument with Patrick (and others) about whether
or not it was ok for me to use the $60 Andrew antennas vs. the $200
BreezeCOM ones. As it turned out, I was wrong, it wasn't OK. But the
rule was also wrong and has since been changed.
We'll eventually see more of the rules changed. Look at the unique
connector rule. The FCC certifies EVERY new consumer device with an
RPSMA connector on it. It's hardly a unique solution anymore. Yet anyone
can get it certified.
I do NOT recommend that anyone out there build a non certified system.
Mine isn't perfect but it's very close and getting better all of the
time. But what are we really supposed to do? There is NO government
enforcement of the rules. What's the incentive to obey them? I have
operators in my area running illegal networks and I've had very limited
success in getting them fixed let along shut down. And the WHOLE market
is suffering due to their massive amounts of interference.
In a fight (like the fight for usable spectrum) the bad guy always makes
the rules. If one guy goes to high power, all have to. No, two wrongs
don't make a right, but they do make a more usable network.
It's not completely the WISP that looks bad when these discussions take
place. It's also those in government that turn a totally blind eye. No
matter what gets done in the field.
I'll tell you something about the whitespaces too. The broadcasters do
NOT want to see auctioned spectrum. They loose too much control that
way. They'd be fools to push for that. The spectrum WILL be opened up
for someone. Who's the least possible threat to them long term?
Unlicensed. The WISPs are, by far, the best friend that the broadcasters
have in this fight. We want smart radios, good sensing, minimized
interference possibilities etc. etc. etc. AND we'll AUTOMATICALLY get
booted from any channels that they broadcasters want to license and get
back. There's really no down side to them. We take all of the risk.
Laters,
marlon
----- Original Message ----- From: "George Rogato" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 1:40 PM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] My Hypothetical Conversation with Julius Knapp,
Chiefof OET
Patrick Leary wrote:
Julie - "Ah, you want that beachfront stuff with high power. Well,
looking at how many WISPs can't be trusted to follow the rules, there
is
considerable risk for that, especially with the broadcasters, who tend
to be a vocal and frankly powerful lobby."
:)
As has been posted on this thread, most of the bad guys are not high
powered, we just have self assembled systems rather than out of the box
solutions.
So start your hypothetical conversation over again and replace high
powered solutions with " low powered versatile solutions" and follow
that line of reasoning.
I'm on record of amps and high powered is not good, most of the time.
George
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Jack Unger ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
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