The FCC could easily have forced CLEC's to build out at the same time it
forced the ILEC's to unbundle.


Would have been nice :).

All I care about is the divide between us and and the rest of the world.
Whether you admit it or not, economically broadband is a utility. It is
the utility for home-based workers, entrepreneurs, the Creative Class,
and innovation. As more and more people get PC access and get online,
more and more ideas, projects, and innovation happens. I want that to
happen in the US. Not in India. Not in China or Korea, but here in
America.


Agreed, although broadband speed doesn't really do that much to help this
(past a certain point, increasing bandwidth leads to diminishing returns).
Broadband penetration is the important factor here.

We have a shortage of doctors in America. A shortage of teachers.
Some of this can be solved via broadband like tele-medicine and distance
learning.


To a point, although economics is more of a factor here than technology.

I'd agree on the doctors; however, distance learning is a pathetic
substitute for on-site teachers.  Good teaching is more about inspiring the
person to want to learn rather than the passing on of
information--technology won't solve what is essentially a problem created by
us placing educational funding as a fairly low budget priority.


> Forced wholesale access of the physical layer / network layer does
> absolutely nothing to increase availability and, in fact, actually
> hurts availabilty.
You are incorrect there. The plant company would need to keep building
out to increase revenue.
The Application side would want that as well.


I think you missed my point here.  My point is that forcing telcos to resell
their network layer does absolutely nothing to connect additional people.
If I resell AT&T DSL to someone on AT&T's network, they could have just as
easily gotten it from AT&T.

I definitely agree that seperating the physical layer and the network layer
would be a great way of regulating and getting good competition; it forces
each component to become more efficient and breaks up the vertical monopoly
(which is, in the end, more damaging than the horizontal monopoly).
However, I think the idea of forcing ILECs to (when all is said and done)
allow resell of their retail products is just stupid.  It doesn't increase
broadband penetration at all



  The ISP / CLEC that is basically reselling ILEC copper is not
> connecting anyone who wouldn't / couldn't have been connected via the
> ILEC.  However, because the ILEC is less profitable due to forced
> reselling, then they can't buildout as much infrastructure
> (theoretically).
Sure it is. CLEC's and ISP's are always stealing clients from each other
and ILEC's. Sometimes they steal them from cable. But more than just the
red ocean is the blue ocean when a new idea like Metro E over copper or
VDSL or HPNA or BPL comes along and stretches the use of the copper and
brings consumers new apps and new access. (Covad is rolling out 15MB DSL
- are any ILECs? NO).


AT&T is doing ADSL2 (although you won't get any more usable bandwidth than
currently available).  I think the bigger question is why aren't more CLECs
rolling out ADSL2?  Why did COVAD wait 5 years to start?  Why do they gripe
and moan about how the FCC is killing the "innovative" part of the industry
instead of actually implementing innovative technologies?  15Mb/s DSL would
have been interesting 5 years ago.  Given massive fiber rollouts and the
upcoming DOCSIS 3 rollouts from the cable companies, 15Mb/s DSL will be too
little, too late.

I'm not saying that these aren't decent business models, btw, and can't make
people some dough.  But, national policy is not structured around making
sure that an extra couple of CLECs or NSPs are cash positive...  running the
same old tired copper to the same old customers does not increase broadband
penetration.

Metro-E over copper is, by and large, a disappointing technology (getting
good quality copper is too difficult by and large).  In some sense as well,
copper just needs to die and be replaced by a better medium (ie fiber or at
least cable HFC plants).



> The fact of the matter is that the US is doing pretty damn well at
> broadband deployment, and, corruption aside, most of the current
> administration's policies have been fairly benificial towards making
> broadband more widely available (with some very major exceptions).
I actually don't think that more DSLAM's are being deployed. I see how
often a business comes up as Unqualified, even when DSL is available in
that area. That's due to CAPEX being spent to over-build DSL penetrated
areas with fiber.

That's not a helpful strategy.

Isn't it?  Copper needs to die as a physical medium...it's expensive to
maintain and is severely handicapped.  I'm perhaps backtracking a bit on my
bandwidth points earlier, but we have reached pretty close to the limit to
what you can shove over a pair of copper.  While we have sufficient
bandwidth for the time being, I believe, copper won't be able to deliver the
needed bandwidth for 10 years down the road...



Qwest is no longer the ILEC in Omaha. That's the first MSA. VZ has asked
for forbearance in 6 MSA's, due in 80 days.

In 80 days, you won't be able to buy access from VZ unless they want to
sell it to you. Why? The stats say cable has beat them out. And I think
it is almost on purpose, so the ILEC can get out from under regulation
and do what it wants.

Do you think that the CLECs are actually hurting the ILECs? Or the ISP's?

ISP's have less than 1% of the DSL in the US.  FISPA members at one time
had 3% of the BellSouth market in 2001.
CLEC's in their hey day had a whopping 15% of the market (2001 I
think).  Not any more.

The largest CLEC has less than 100,000 customers. And even with the
Super CLEC's - all 3 of them - approaching $1B in revenue, their debt is
3/4 of that number and they pay more than 50% of revenue to the ILEC.




How does that hurt the ILEC? They make money from CLEC's. They don't
make a dime from cable.


Does it hurt the ILEC?  Heh...probably not all that much.  But, are CLECs
really helping the consumer?  I tend to argue no, by and large...why IS CLEC
market share so small?  Why are independent ISPs have so little market
share?

CLECs have killed themselves because they tended to think in quarterly and
yearly terms for P/L and investment.  The cable companies and the ILECS tend
to think longer term and so have been able to win out in the long term.
NSPs pay ~$30/month to resell DSL service; $3,600 over ten years to provide
DSL service to a residence.  That's enough money to start financing a fiber
buildout, and that's just some crummy DSL service.  Owning the physical
infrastructure makes a huge difference, something that CLECs, by and large,
never learned, and just kept on paying huge chunks of money to the ILEC
rather than building their own network and making themselves sufficient (in
a lot of cases, it isn't feasible, since you do have to have a certain
market penetration for it to be worthwhile.).

Anyway, that's a lot of rambling.  I tend to agree with a lot of your
points, Peter; I just don't really see the value.  The CLECs got special
market regulation and so forth on the premise of creating a lot of extra
competition, increasing broadband penetration, and (vaguely) the promise of
innovation.  They have by and large failed miserably in all three areas...
Put them to rest.  Put the efforts on getting more people involved in
actually building out networks and increasing REAL competition (yes,
wireless does fit in there to some degree).


Clint Ricker
Kentnis Technologies



On 7/24/07, Peter R. <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Clint Ricker wrote:
> I'll duck after this post, but I by and large tend to agree with the
> basis of the article.
>
> Scottie, exactly what regulation would you recommend?
STRUCTURAL SEPARATION like BT is experiencing in the UK, which would
never happen here.
>
> What has regulation solved in the past 11 years?  By and large, I've
> not seen a single bit of FCC regulation that has had a net positive
> impact for getting access to the consumer, especially post 2000 (it
> was probably a good force behind making dialup Internet access widely
> available and affordable).
It was not FCC regulation; it was the TA96 that was tattered and torn by
lobbying and litigating.
The FCC SHOULD have advanced its policy and then set to forcing it.
Instead it went to bed with 2 of the industries it is supposed to
regulate (media & telco).

The FCC could easily have forced CLEC's to build out at the same time it
forced the ILEC's to unbundle.

Let me extrapolate this for you:

In the NFL cities you would have endless construction as fiber is laid
to all the MTU's.
But in all other markets, not so much competition.
And then you would have VZ selling off its rural ... oh, wait, they do
that now because they don't want to invest the money.
They make a good rate of return (as attested to by their increasing
profits -- not revenues). They get USF and other funding to provide
service in rural areas, but do not want to live up to the promises that
they made back in 1997-1999.

Do you think I care about the 15th or 21st or whatever study number? No.

All I care about is the divide between us and and the rest of the world.
Whether you admit it or not, economically broadband is a utility. It is
the utility for home-based workers, entrepreneurs, the Creative Class,
and innovation. As more and more people get PC access and get online,
more and more ideas, projects, and innovation happens. I want that to
happen in the US. Not in India. Not in China or Korea, but here in
America.

We have a shortage of doctors in America. A shortage of teachers.
Some of this can be solved via broadband like tele-medicine and distance
learning.
>
> Forced wholesale access of the physical layer / network layer does
> absolutely nothing to increase availability and, in fact, actually
> hurts availabilty.
You are incorrect there. The plant company would need to keep building
out to increase revenue.
The Application side would want that as well.

>   The ISP / CLEC that is basically reselling ILEC copper is not
> connecting anyone who wouldn't / couldn't have been connected via the
> ILEC.  However, because the ILEC is less profitable due to forced
> reselling, then they can't buildout as much infrastructure
> (theoretically).
Sure it is. CLEC's and ISP's are always stealing clients from each other
and ILEC's. Sometimes they steal them from cable. But more than just the
red ocean is the blue ocean when a new idea like Metro E over copper or
VDSL or HPNA or BPL comes along and stretches the use of the copper and
brings consumers new apps and new access. (Covad is rolling out 15MB DSL
- are any ILECs? NO).
>
> The fact of the matter is that the US is doing pretty damn well at
> broadband deployment, and, corruption aside, most of the current
> administration's policies have been fairly benificial towards making
> broadband more widely available (with some very major exceptions).
I actually don't think that more DSLAM's are being deployed. I see how
often a business comes up as Unqualified, even when DSL is available in
that area. That's due to CAPEX being spent to over-build DSL penetrated
areas with fiber.

That's not a helpful strategy.

Qwest is no longer the ILEC in Omaha. That's the first MSA. VZ has asked
for forbearance in 6 MSA's, due in 80 days.

In 80 days, you won't be able to buy access from VZ unless they want to
sell it to you. Why? The stats say cable has beat them out. And I think
it is almost on purpose, so the ILEC can get out from under regulation
and do what it wants.

Do you think that the CLECs are actually hurting the ILECs? Or the ISP's?

ISP's have less than 1% of the DSL in the US.  FISPA members at one time
had 3% of the BellSouth market in 2001.
CLEC's in their hey day had a whopping 15% of the market (2001 I
think).  Not any more.

The largest CLEC has less than 100,000 customers. And even with the
Super CLEC's - all 3 of them - approaching $1B in revenue, their debt is
3/4 of that number and they pay more than 50% of revenue to the ILEC.
How does that hurt the ILEC? They make money from CLEC's. They don't
make a dime from cable.

> -Clint Ricker
> Kentnis Technologies
>
- Peter @ RAD-INFO, Inc.

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