Should have read "have you been affected"...
Patrick Shoemaker President, Vector Data Systems LLC [EMAIL PROTECTED] office: (301) 358-1690 x36 mobile: (410) 991-5791 http://www.vectordatasystems.com Patrick Shoemaker wrote: > Tom, on a semi-related note, have affected by the VLAN bug on these > radios? The radio will not respond to any traffic originating outside if > its own subnet if VLAN support is enabled. That means no monitoring by a > NMS if it's not on the same subnet as the radio. > > Trango confirmed the bug back in February but has been unable / > unwilling to fix it so far... > > > Patrick Shoemaker > President, Vector Data Systems LLC > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > office: (301) 358-1690 x36 > mobile: (410) 991-5791 > http://www.vectordatasystems.com > > > Tom DeReggi wrote: >> The T45 is probably my favorite ptp radio today, but I'm severally limited >> without support for 10mhz channels. >> I usually run 20Mhz channels, but the safety blanket to be able to drop to >> 10Mhz to get around interference is priceless, when it is needed. Thats >> never known until after the gear is deployed. >> >> I agree, just add supprot for 10Mhz channels, and Its all good for me. >> >> Tom DeReggi >> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Gino Villarini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 12:00 PM >> Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents >> >> >>> Thay just need to add a couple of features to the t45... >>> >>> Better ethernet configuration options >>> >>> 5 10 40 channels support >>> >>> gino >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Tom DeReggi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2008 3:13 AM >>> To: WISPA General List <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents >>> >>>> Which really leaves me wondering what Trango is going to be selling? >>> Kick ASX PTP systems. Both Tri-Band Atlases, and Licensed Links. The >>> have >>> the potential to stay a price leader in Quality PtP. >>> >>> As for the PTMP.... >>> To this day, I have never been able to get over the need to do scans on >>> the >>> fly from APs, to determine best channel to try. >>> The Atlas still gives us that, and makes it a long term contendor against >>> all the other options. >>> >>> I think Trango realizes they can't miss the PTP licensed market, (its to >>> important) and that they need to stay focused on it. >>> >>> What I don't understand is why they can't just write some quick firmware >>> mods, and turn the Atlast PTP Ext into an Atlas PTMP AP? >>> I sure hope they don't give up on the MM5, even if it can't give us >>> everything we want. >>> >>> Tom DeReggi >>> RapidDSL & Wireless, Inc >>> IntAirNet- Fixed Wireless Broadband >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Travis Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2008 2:04 PM >>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents >>> >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> You are correct... my mistake. >>>> >>>> However, the MM5 was going to be 5ghz along with an MM2 (2.4ghz) and MM9 >>>> (900mhz)... but as you mentioned, the products have been discontinued. >>>> Which really leaves me wondering what Trango is going to be selling? >>>> Their 5 year old product is getting slow, and is still very expensive. :( >>>> >>>> Travis >>>> >>>> >>>> Charles Wu wrote: >>>>> Travis, >>>>> >>>>> The Trango 5830 / 900 / 2400 were up/down-coverted 802.11b - not 802.11a >>>>> systems >>>>> >>>>> The only 802.11a multipoint system that Trango had was MM5, and it is my >>>>> understanding that (1) it was never for 900 MHz and (2) it has been put >>>>> on hold / discontinued >>>>> >>>>> -Charles >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------- >>>>> WiNOG Wireless Roadshows >>>>> Coming to a City Near You >>>>> http://www.winog.com >>>>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On >>>>> Behalf Of Travis Johnson >>>>> Sent: Friday, July 18, 2008 1:08 AM >>>>> To: WISPA General List >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents >>>>> >>>>> What about Trango? >>>>> >>>>> Charles Wu wrote: >>>>> >>>>> So, what down converted 802.11a systems are there for 900? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Mini-PCI: >>>>> >>>>> Ubiquiti >>>>> >>>>> Zcomax >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Vendor Solutions: >>>>> >>>>> Tranzeo >>>>> >>>>> Alvarion >>>>> >>>>> Vecima/WaveRider >>>>> >>>>> Wu-Wu Special* >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *We are doing some exploratory investigation =) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -Charles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> >>>>> From: "Charles Wu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>> >>>>> To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]><mailto:[email protected]> >>>>> >>>>> Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2008 9:19 PM >>>>> >>>>> Subject: Re: [WISPA] top 10 benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz - my 2 cents >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Even thought this thread is a bit old, couldn't help but add my 2 cents >>>>> >>>>> (as there seems to be a resurgence of "puff" in this space) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> DISCLAIMER: I am also a vendor of various WiMAX 802.16d systems - so >>>>> feel >>>>> >>>>> free to apply your necessary 'BS' filter >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Benefits of Wimax in 3.65ghz >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 1. Spectral efficiency ( 4.85 gross bp/hz ) On a six sector >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> configuration with only 25mhz of spectrum, you can effectively deliver >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> approx 20mb per sector or 120 mb / per pop, 240 mb when all 50 mhz is >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> supported. Support for thousands of subscribers is possible off the same >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> BSU. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> This isn't all too exciting, IMO - there are plenty of systems out there >>>>> >>>>> that have similar (if not better) spectral efficiency characteristics as >>>>> >>>>> to what the WiMAX 802.16d standard offers...also, with the uncertainties >>>>> >>>>> of 3650 licensing, which is, from an interference protection >>>>> perspective, >>>>> >>>>> not that much different that Part-15, higher order modulation schemes >>>>> >>>>> don't do much in the presence of noise >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Case in point: Why does everyone keep using Canopy 900 MHz systems when >>>>> >>>>> you can get an 802.11a OFDM-based down-converted system that delivers >>>>> 3-4x >>>>> >>>>> the throughput? Well, it's a matter of what's actually going to work in >>>>> >>>>> the crowded 900 MHz band. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 2. multiple vendor support ( currently you have Redline, Aperto, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Airspan, Alvarion, all with FCC approved equipment ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The "concept" of interoperability is one of the most "oversold" features >>>>> >>>>> of WiMAX which needs to be explained... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Fictitious Scenario: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Say I had deployed Brand A system for my business users, and in order to >>>>> >>>>> enable VoIP services, I enable a variety of the more advanced MAC >>>>> features >>>>> >>>>> (rTP for my VoIP)...I set up a variety of service flows that are >>>>> >>>>> customized to each user...blah blah blah >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Problem is, Brand A system, for whatever reason, didn't support UGS and >>>>> a >>>>> >>>>> few esoteric service flow / packet filtering features, but at the time, >>>>> >>>>> I'm really not too concerned because (a) my customers don't demand UGS >>>>> >>>>> from me right now and (b) the concept of "WiMAX interoperability" story >>>>> >>>>> gives me the conclusion that if I really need UGS, I could just buy / >>>>> >>>>> upgrade to Brand X system and retain all of my Brand A CPEs that I've >>>>> >>>>> deployed. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Now, 6 months later, I've deployed 50 CPE in the field, and business is >>>>> >>>>> doing good...so good in fact that 2 customers want to upgrade to a >>>>> >>>>> "premium" service that requires features not currently supported on >>>>> Brand >>>>> >>>>> A AP. Luckily, I have a "WiMAX" system so I go upgrade Brand A AP with >>>>> >>>>> Brand X. Common sense would lead me to believe that Brand X would >>>>> support >>>>> >>>>> all of my CPE's features, plus supporting the enhanced feature of UGS >>>>> that >>>>> >>>>> I need >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sorry, isn't going to work >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> As things turn out, the only "interoperability" testing done between >>>>> Brand >>>>> >>>>> A CPEs and Brand X APs were done at the Best Effort feature set (basic >>>>> >>>>> Ethernet connectivity)...additionally, Rf interoperability was done at a >>>>> >>>>> 3.5 MHz channel size, and I've been running Brand A at 10 MHz to >>>>> maximize >>>>> >>>>> my throughput (oh, and Brand X only supports 3.5 MHz, 5 MHz & 7 MHz >>>>> >>>>> channel sizes)...so to get this interoperability, I lose all of my rTP / >>>>> >>>>> VoIP prioritization for my entire network, or I have to go out and >>>>> replace >>>>> >>>>> my 20 Brand A CPEs that are running VoIP with Brand X CPEs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Oops >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What's the moral of the story? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ultimately, unless you're willing to run your network at the lowest >>>>> common >>>>> >>>>> denominator, you're basically buying into a proprietary system. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 3. Better RF performance ( even with siso systems ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Better RF performance as compared to what? And in what vein? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> I can easily "slant" the argument the other way by bringing up an >>>>> example >>>>> >>>>> where a proprietary system outperforms WiMAX >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Noise Immunity: Are you saying that WiMAX has better noise immunity that >>>>> >>>>> Canopy (OFDM vs. FSK...yeah right) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> NLOS: Are you saying that WiMAX can do better NLoS than 900 MHz? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Urban Reflective NLOS: Are you saying that WiMAX can do better Urban >>>>> NLoS >>>>> >>>>> than a MIMO-based 1024-FFT OFDM system? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 4. NLOS performance ( OFDM+OFDMA = More difficult shots obtain link ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> See above >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 5. Better QOS support, and service flows ( UGS, NRTPS, ETC can be ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> There can be an argument made that the WiMAX MAC is much more >>>>> >>>>> sophisticated than the Canopy / Alvarion VL / Trango / Tranzeo / CSMA-CA >>>>> >>>>> systems on the market today...that said, don't forget that there is a >>>>> >>>>> $$$COST$$$ for this sophistication...namely, you effectively lock >>>>> yourself >>>>> >>>>> into a "proprietary" implementation of your WiMAX system >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 6. Greater scalablity ( Single sector can support hundreds of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> subscribers, our platform supports 30,000 pps ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> WiMAX in it's true tested and interoperable state maxes out at an >>>>> >>>>> aggregate "throughput" range of ~10 Mbps per AP >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To get better performance (up to 20 Mbps / AP), I give up >>>>> interoperability >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 7. Support for multiline VOIP out of box ( UGS + 30K PPS ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At the expense of interoperability >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 8. Sub 350 cpe shipping today ( in 100 packs, less with frame order >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> commitments putting your cost sub 300 ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Ubiquiti Lightstations are sub-$100 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Tranzeos / Deliberant / whatever are in the $100-200 range >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Motorola Canopy / Alvarion is in the $200-300 range >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Oh, and they (just like WiMAX) are basically proprietary >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 9. Carrier class systems vs Wisp class ( True 99.999% uptime solutions >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> available for base station equipment, reducing downtime and truck rolls >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Carrier Class = $10k APs >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you're willing to spend $10k for an AP - you can get a proprietary >>>>> >>>>> 'WISP' system that has all the "carrier-class" features of "WiMAX" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> 10. Carrier class network management systems that simplify provisioning >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> and management of subscribers and base stations. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Lol...I find this amusing...as the WiMAX specification "overcomplicates" >>>>> >>>>> the provisioning process, so you now have the need to purchase a system >>>>> to >>>>> >>>>> simplify provisioning so it will work like a Canopy / Trango / Tranzeo / >>>>> >>>>> Alvarion =) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Supply and Demand at its best =/ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That said, if you are still interested in WiMAX after this "cold dose of >>>>> >>>>> reality," we have plenty of radios in stock =) >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -Charles >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> WISPA Wants You! 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