What I'm trying to say is that an AP that is capable of 20 Mb when
there is only one customer must share that same 20 Mb between ALL the
customers once more than one customer is connected to it. If one user
draws 5 Mb continually then only 15 Mb remain to be shared with and
between all the remaining customers. If a second user now draws 5 Mb
continually then only 10 Mb remains to be shared by all the other
customers. If four customers are each drawing 5 Mb continually then
there is NO remaining throughput for any of the remaining customers.
Mike Hammett wrote:
I do understand how it works. I also understand (not sure if this is what
you're getting at) that an AP capable of 20 megabits to a single person may
not be capable of an aggregate of 20 megabits to 30 people.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jack Unger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:41 AM
To: "WISPA General List" <wireless@wispa.org>
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article
Dear Mike,
You miss the point and possibly so does Josh. Because an AP can deliver
"x" amount of throughput during a speed test between two location does
not mean that the same AP can deliver that amount of throughput to all
the customers simultaneously. The AP's throughput is shared between all
of the end-users. When the AP maxes out, some (possibly all) of those
end-users must slow down. Some WISPs do not understand this and thus
they end up over-promising throughput and disappointing their customers.
WISPs need to understand this or they will fail in this business and
give other WISPs a black eye in the process. Nobody is getting beat up
here; this has nothing to do with personalities. It has everything to do
with the physics of data communications behavior. Everybody needs to
understand the true limits of their system.
Why is this? Because the "air" is a shared medium. Throughput delivery
takes real-world time in intervals we call "time-slots". You can only
carry so much throughput during one time-slot. There area only so many
time-slots (fractions of a second) in each second. This is why
throughput is limited. Only so many users can be on one AP at the same
time if they are requesting a large amount of the available AP
throughput. A lightly-loaded system may appear to be able to deliver max
throughput simultaneously to those few customers but when the AP is
heavily loaded with users who are vying for a lot of throughput
simultaneously then most of them will need to slow down because not
everyone will get all the time slots they need to carry the high
throughput (ex: video streaming) levels that they are requesting.
Don't make this personal; that simply detracts from the very real
technical limits that a successful WISP must understand in order to
succeed and survive.
jack
Mike Hammett wrote:
I didn't get that at all.
It seems as though when anyone on this list suggests going faster than 2
megabits, they get beat up. Sorry, Charlie, BA-II was outdated long ago.
-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
From: Jack Unger
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 6:55 PM
To: WISPA General List
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article
So how many of your customers can you serve 26 Mb to SIMULTANEOUSLY from
the same AP? It sounds like you are saying that you can serve all of them
26 Mb simultaneously.
Josh Luthman wrote:
Each customer has an MT - capable of 26mbps to their home. Each tower
has a
Redline to it, throughput as high as the key purchased (54 megs).
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jack Unger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Josh Luthman wrote:
My 5.8 customers can do 10+ megs...
The estimated throughput on the MTs is 30 to 31 megs. Real bandwidth
tests
show 26 megs.
So do you deploy one MT for each customer or do you share that 26 Mb
between all of your customers on that one access point?
Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373
Those who don't understand Wireless are condemned to reinvent it, poorly.
--- Henry Spencer
On Wed, Dec 3, 2008 at 3:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
And which telco is this going to bail out? Money from Congress to
industry = pay off Unions for votes.
We will never, ever, ever, ever qualify.
Another headliner article I read on this will redefine "broadband" as
over
10 Meg.
Nothing like disqualifying almost the entire WISP industry...
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
<insert witty tagline here>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Harnish" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "'WISPA General List'" <wireless@wispa.org> <wireless@wispa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] Article
Jeff,
Just to let you know, I am in Washington DC this week participating in
the
events below. WISPA has signed on as a supporter of the Call to Action
to
define the Nationwide Broadband Strategy. It was great to see all the
players of the Broadband Industry working together to attempt to bring
the
US back up to the top of the Broadband Access ladder. It will be a busy
three months while this strategy is defined and presented to the Obama
Administration.
Respectfully,
Rick Harnish
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>] On
Behalf Of Jeff Broadwick
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 1:21 PM
To: 'WISPA General List'
Subject: [WISPA] Article
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/02/AR2008120203
164_pf.html
New Coalition Drawing Up Nationwide Broadband Access Strategy
By Cecilia Kang
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, December 3, 2008; D03
President-elect Barack Obama has said getting affordable high-speed
Internet
service to every American home would create jobs, fuel economic growth
and
spark innovation. Yesterday, representatives from technology and
telecommunications companies, labor unions and public interest groups
frequently at odds with one another agreed to provide the next president
with a roadmap for how to accomplish those goals.
That map could include tax breaks, low-interest loans, subsidies and
public-private partnerships to encourage more investments in upgrading
and
building out high-speed networks, representatives from Google, AT&T and
public interest group Free Press said during a panel discussion on
broadband
policy that also served as a coming-out party for their newly formed
coalition.
The details of how to meet those goals still must be worked out by the
group, whose aim is to bring more affordable high-speed Internet access
to
every consumer.
Many of the group members have been at odds with each other on whether
the
government should set limits on how much spectrum a company can hold,
the
use of unlicensed devices on fallow broadcast airwaves and net
neutrality --
the notion that network operators should be prevented from blocking or
slowing Internet traffic. The formation of the group is an effort to move
beyond their differences.
"The coalition is a positive in that it demonstrates we agree that we
have
a
broadband problem, which not everyone was willing to admit to two years
ago," said Ben Scott, policy director at Free Press and a member of the
group. "The key is whether we'll see this group produce policy solutions
that will require difficult choices."
At stake is the nation's ability to compete technologically and
economically, the group said. The United States has dropped from the top
10
nations for broadband access, speeds and price in the last several years.
The coalition is pushing for a federal plan that would provide access to
high-speed Internet service, much as the government did with electricity,
roads and phone service.
Obama famously used the Internet for outreach during his campaign and
received 370,000 donations online. He's proposed using blogs, social
networking tools and community Web pages known as wikis to connect
citizens
to government agencies. And Obama has argued for massive upgrades to
technology infrastructure such as high-speed, or broadband, Internet.
So far the coalition's plans to increase broadband usage mirrors Obama's
plan, but there could be disagreement over deployment, analysts said.
Communications Workers of America President Larry Cohen said the union
supports a proposal by Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.) to increase
definitions for broadband to 10 megabits per second for downloads by
2010.
The current definition for broadband speed in the United States is 768
kilobits per second downstream, which is far below standards in many
other
nations.
Achieving that goal at prices acceptable to consumers, however, would be
expensive for telecom and cable network operators. Some in the coalition
could push for laws that would achieve lower prices and higher speeds
through more wireless and telecom competitors, but that could cause
further
disagreement among members, Scott said.
Some have already suggested requesting funds from the federal economic
stimulus plan for broadband deployment. Yesterday, an aide to House
Speaker
Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said Pelosi was in favor of that idea.
AT&T chief lobbyist Jim Cicconi said the company has moved closer to the
view of public interest groups and Google that the Web should be open for
all users without discrimination of technology and content on their
network.
But unlike Free Press and consumer groups, AT&T opposes new laws or rules
on
net neutrality, saying Federal Communications Commission rules are
sufficient, and any violation should be handled on a case-by-case basis.
"There will be significant outstanding debates that will be very tough
and
there will still be daylight between the groups on many, many issues,"
said
Rebecca Arbogast, an analyst at investment firm Stifel Nicolaus. "But
both
sides are in a phase right now where they are emphasizing how much they
share in terms of their views on what is an appropriate framework for
looking at this issue."
Jeff Broadwick
Sales Manager, ImageStream
800-813-5123 x106 (US/Can)
+1 574-935-8484 x106 (Int'l)
+1 574-935-8488 (Fax)
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Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping
FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger>
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger>
Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping
FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile
<http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger>
Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
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Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
--
Jack Unger - President, Ask-Wi.Com, Inc.
Serving the Broadband Wireless Industry Since 1993
Cisco Press Author - "Deploying License-Free Wireless WANs"
WISPs - Do you know where your customers are?
For wireless coverage mapping see http://www.ask-wi.com/mapping
FCC Lic. #PG-12-25133 LinkedIn Profile <http://www.linkedin.com/in/jackunger>
Phone 818-227-4220 Email <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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