So far all I can find on the internet is that ethernet is at either 12.5 or 
31.25mhz.  NOT 350, that's gigE, not 10/100.

Also, this tower is a 100' wooden pole.  Can't move anywhere really.
marlon

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Adam Goodman" <[email protected]>
To: "WISPA General List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2009 9:15 AM
Subject: Re: [WISPA] FM radio station site strangeness


> It also sounds like there is a new leak in the waveguide. One more
> thing you might try is to move the cable from leg to leg on the tower
> so that you variable length sections that do not resonate at 350MHz or
> ~100MHz (FM transminssion).
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Adam Goodman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> We also colocate with an FM transmitter. Only 1300W though. we also
>> had interference on our Ethernet lines. We solved it by moving radios
>> away from the FM antenna (3 feet or so on a 90' tower) We also
>> installed ferrits which helped (I actually used a conduit pipe).
>> Grounding the cat5 helped too.
>>
>> I would think that if you find that you need more shielding. put all
>> your cat5 cables in a conduit and install abreakout box at the top of
>> the tower. If your area is prone to electrical storms (where isn't
>> these days?!) you will at some point be very sorry you didn't grount
>> (and well!!)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 7, 2009 at 10:47 AM, Marlon K. Schafer <[email protected]> 
>> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>> I think we finally have this all figured out.  Now I just have to figure 
>>> out
>>> how to fix it.
>>>
>>> We've been up there for over 6 years now.  It's certainly been a 
>>> problematic
>>> site though.  Constant channel changes (we have 3 competitors a mile 
>>> away
>>> and pick up hundreds of ap's from in town) are the norm.
>>>
>>> This fall (a month or two ago) one of the tenants left the building. 
>>> This
>>> cleared out most of the hardware that was in there.  A little bit before
>>> that I replaced an Inscape Data and a smartBridges combo with a single 
>>> MT
>>> access point, using one of the cables that had been working for one of 
>>> the
>>> other two.
>>>
>>> About a week ago things started to really act up.  Multiple devices were
>>> having trouble.  I was able to catch it in the act finally.  This time 
>>> the
>>> problem wasn't a wireless issue, the devices were constantly 
>>> disconnecting
>>> and reconnecting at the switch level.
>>>
>>> I pulled the Cisco switch out and dropped in a Netgear unit.  That 
>>> didn't
>>> fix it.  Next I put in a Digital Loggers rack mount reboot device.  That
>>> wouldn't connect right either.
>>>
>>> I finally had to pull all of the hardware off of the shelf and set most 
>>> of
>>> it on the floor (or just let it hang there) to get it working at all 
>>> well.
>>> Still not perfect but better.
>>>
>>> I had by now hiked up there through sometimes knee deep snow 3 or 4 
>>> times.
>>> Next I took a motorbike with studded snow tires up and got permission to
>>> turn down the power to the radio station.  That didn't fix the problem
>>> either.
>>>
>>> Next I borrowed a snowmobile and hauled some help and my spectrum 
>>> analyzer
>>> up.  I was unable to see any signals that didn't belong.
>>>
>>> Next day, another hike up the hill.
>>>
>>> OK, maybe a cat 5 cable went bad and I'm getting backfeed through the
>>> switch.  DC current or something.  So I started testing the cables that 
>>> run
>>> to the most problematic units.  Well now, look at that.  Bad cable.  In 
>>> fact
>>> there are three of them.  Hmmm, kinda strange though.  All three have 
>>> the
>>> exact same fault!  Oh well, better change them out anyway.  I ran three 
>>> new
>>> cable runs and just for kicks I tested one of them.  What the heck????? 
>>> The
>>> new cable has the EXACT same fault as the old one!  Even though it 
>>> didn't
>>> follow the exact same path as the old cables.
>>>
>>> Man, this is sure looking like a problem caused by the radio station.  I 
>>> was
>>> using indoor cat5 and didn't run lightning protection or ground 
>>> anything.
>>> Yeah I know, but remember that this has been there for a very long time 
>>> like
>>> this.  And as a guy with an electrical background I know that there are
>>> actually two ways to deal with stray electrical.  Grounding is one.
>>> Insulating is another!!!!  Anyway, I know it wasn't built to specs.
>>>
>>> I added some grounding and that didn't help at all.
>>>
>>> Yesterday I finally had one of the local wireless companies (Day 
>>> Wireless)
>>> that mainly does VHF radios, backhaul etc.  They also checked things 
>>> with
>>> the spectrum analyzer but couldn't find anything amiss.  I was able to
>>> duplicate the wiring fault for them (with my Ideal tester).  But 
>>> suddenly
>>> everything cleared right up!  Stuff was looking good, no cable fault 
>>> etc.
>>> Pings were looking good, devices were finally negotiating the 
>>> connections
>>> right etc.
>>>
>>> I called the radio station to ask if I could try turning the power down
>>> again to see if we see any change on the spectrum analyzer.  They said 
>>> they
>>> thought that I'd already done that because the showed the power was way
>>> down.  Turns out someone in the building had bumped a breaker and shut 
>>> down
>>> part of the transmitter!  Well, we got all of that figured out and guess
>>> what.  All of the problems came right back!  I then turned the power 
>>> back
>>> down and they cleared up.
>>>
>>> Tip for you guys, dropping an 18,000 watt system down by even 60% of 
>>> it's
>>> normal output isn't always enough.  We had to drop down to 10 to 20% to 
>>> get
>>> the problems to clear up.  The guys from Day Wireless had some small 
>>> ferrite
>>> beads with them so we stuck them onto the cables.  Put the beads on and 
>>> the
>>> radios would negotiate at 100full.  Take them off and they'd drop right 
>>> back
>>> to 100 half.  Duplicatable all day long.
>>>
>>> Soooo, current theory is that the radio station is screwing up my cat5
>>> connections.  The fact that the building has less hardware in it and we 
>>> have
>>> more snow up there than normal has probably caused some different eddy
>>> currents or multipath.  Or some other such strangeness.
>>>
>>> I have some shielded cable and connectors on the way.  I have permission 
>>> to
>>> move my gear from one side of the building to the other side.  I've got 
>>> more
>>> high end ferrite beads on the way (one that is made for cat 5 and is big
>>> enough for three wraps to go through it).  Not the little $.50 ones, 
>>> these
>>> are nearly $6.00 each.
>>>
>>> I also have a Fluke DTX on the way.
>>> http://www.flukenetworks.com/fnet/en-us/products/DTX+CableAnalyzer+Series/
>>> They rent for $650 per month from http://www.trs-rentelco.com/  List is 
>>> over
>>> $7000.  If I like it I'll probably get one and add it to my two spectrum
>>> analyzers and my bucket truck.  grin
>>>
>>> Never ever forget that wireless is 50% science and 62% black magic!
>>>
>>> I am quite hopeful that the new cable, beads on bother ends of the cat5,
>>> better grounding, and an equipment move will fix this site up nicely. 
>>> If
>>> not, who wants to buy it?  lol  Seriously, this site and one of the ones
>>> that it feeds cause nearly 80% of my trouble calls.  With any luck it 
>>> wasn't
>>> wireless trouble that I've been having all along.  Shrug.
>>>
>>> Here's the really strange part to all of this.  The hardware that cost 
>>> the
>>> most has the most trouble!  grrrr
>>>
>>> Also, the Day Wireless guy had some kind of wide band sensor.  He could 
>>> move
>>> it around and see where overall signal levels were unsafe for people. 
>>> Right
>>> beside a 4" or so copper pipe that the radio station used as a wave 
>>> guide
>>> was pretty bad.  A couple of inches from it was ok.  The next highest
>>> readings at the whole site?  RIGHT a the BASE of the 100' wooden pole 
>>> that
>>> everything is mounted on!  And what did I do when I installed all this 
>>> new
>>> gear a year ago?  Yeah, I put the antennas up top and the radios right 
>>> down
>>> at the base of the tower so I could get to them without having to rent a
>>> lift.  Dang the luck!
>>>
>>> Hope that this helps someone else out.
>>> marlon
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
>>> http://signup.wispa.org/
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
>>>
>>> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
>>> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>>>
>>> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/
>>>
>>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> WISPA Wants You! Join today!
> http://signup.wispa.org/
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]
>
> Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
> http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless
>
> Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/ 



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WISPA Wants You! Join today!
http://signup.wispa.org/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
WISPA Wireless List: [email protected]

Subscribe/Unsubscribe:
http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

Archives: http://lists.wispa.org/pipermail/wireless/

Reply via email to